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Thread: Shurflo pushing uphill?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Freedom, IN.
    Posts
    158

    Default Shurflo pushing uphill?

    I've been reading everything I can find regarding the shurflo pumps, but I haven't been able to find a definitive answer. If I have 300' of 3/4" mainline fed by 60 trees on 3/16 laterals, and I need to push sap up a 30' elevation 150' to the sugar house, will a single 4008 be able to do this? It looks like most use the shurflo as vacuum, and dump into a remote tank. I'm trying to avoid the remote tank if possible.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
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    10,454

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    I don't find a pump performance curve in order to answer that, sorry. I googled for a pump curve but did not get one that would help, maybe others can find an answer for you. You might be able to just run a test, to see, if it will pump that high especially when the battery is not at full charge. If it will push thru a 3/16 or 5/16 line up a 35' rise (a larger line will have less line friction) while generating vacuum at the same time in a test it might work. However to push the 30 or 35' high without also creating vacuum might not help unless you have 2 pumps, one for vacuum, the second for push each on a separate battery.
    Dave Klish about 1320 taps in '15, downsized after I lost my help, about 450-500 planned for 2021 (and after?)
    2012 Mahindra 36 HP 4x4/ loader/cab/heat/AC:-)
    3x8 raised flue evaporator
    250 GPH converted to electric, RO by Ray Gingerich
    6.32 KW solar system, 1.48KW is battery backed up, all net metered
    http://s1041.photobucket.com/albums/...anssugarhouse/
    website: www.cnymaple.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Rutland, Vermont
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    242

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    Mapletrader member, Bizz I believe has a version of his controllers that might be able to handle what you are trying to do. I use a 4008 for vacuum. Maybe if you reduced the line small enough it would work. I would think it would be a drain on the batteries. here's a link to his website.
    https://www.mountainmaplefarm.com/
    Leader 2x6 Raised flue with preheater and hood. Patriot pans
    Leader Clear 5 bank filter press
    Memprotec 200H RO
    400ish taps

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Peoria, IL
    Posts
    604

    Default

    A few seasons ago I used the 4008 as a sap pump from my sap shed. It was similar situation as yours, up about 30ft rise to the sugar kitchen and the length was around 300ft on 3/4 tubing for the pump line. It worked but it was slow. If I remember correctly it was around 2 - 2.5 gallons per minute. Your run is shorter so it may be closer to 2.5 gpm.

    My other question is will you have a tank at your pump or will the pump pull and push without a tank? If the latter, how will you account for freezing with a pump line full of sap? I always drained my pump line after pumping sap to avoid a line solid of sap. It would take some time to thaw if it were to freeze solid.
    Camp Wokanda
    Peoria Park District

    2020 - 210 taps 3/16 shurflo, upgraded hp pump on RO - 66 gallons
    2019 - 150 taps 3/16 shurflo, Deer Run 125 dolly RO - 73 gallons
    2018 - 120 taps 3/16 hybrid (shurflo), 2x6 raised flue w/hood, homemade arch w/ AUF & AOF - 34.5 gallons
    2017 - 60 taps 3/16 gravity, oil tank arck w/ steam pans - 12.5 gallons

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Eden Prairie, MN
    Posts
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    I use a 4008 as a combined vac and transfer pump. Vac on 78 taps on 3/16. Output is 5/16 tubing 200’ up and over a road to a tank No significant elevation change there. It draws 25” Hg on vac while pumping. Flow is low since it is limited by the tree production. I use a local tank when I expect a freeze because if the transfer line freezes the pump can create up to 50 or 60 psi and blow the lines off fittings. When I add a suction line from the local tank to move it over, total flow can bump up to about 0.3 gallons per minute. It is limited be the friction in the line. If you want more flow use a bigger line for transfer. I wouldn’t go much over 1/2 inch Flow velocity will be very slow.

    35 feet of elevation adds about 15 psi of pressure to the output. Well within the capabilities of the pump. These higher pressures may decrease the vacuum performance and will drain batteries much faster. I run my 12 Vdc pump off a battery charger since I have power nearby.
    John
    2x8 Smokylake drop flue with AOF/ AUF
    180 taps on sacks
    75 on 3/16 tubing with shurflo
    Eden Prairie, Minnesota

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Freedom, IN.
    Posts
    158

    Default

    Thanks for the input guys. My plan was to build a solar setup, complete with power supply, temp sensor, and solenoid valves that will shut down the pump and drain both the suction and pressure lines at a predetermined temp. I love to design and build, so I'm excited by the prospect. I'm just not sure one 4008 will still develop adequate vacuum if it also has to push sap uphill.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Peoria, IL
    Posts
    604

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    Your plan sounds well thought out. I think a 4008 would do the job. Another option would be to step up to the 4048, shurflos larger pump. I use 2 of those on my bush on 2 mains of 150 taps each and they work great. They are rated at 4 gpm vs the 4008 3gpm.
    Camp Wokanda
    Peoria Park District

    2020 - 210 taps 3/16 shurflo, upgraded hp pump on RO - 66 gallons
    2019 - 150 taps 3/16 shurflo, Deer Run 125 dolly RO - 73 gallons
    2018 - 120 taps 3/16 hybrid (shurflo), 2x6 raised flue w/hood, homemade arch w/ AUF & AOF - 34.5 gallons
    2017 - 60 taps 3/16 gravity, oil tank arck w/ steam pans - 12.5 gallons

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
    Posts
    5,006

    Default

    30' lift is about 13 psi. According to the pump curve located at https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....1fsZQoRlVS.pdf it is rated to pump 2 gpm at that lift while using 1.6 amps. As others have noted, the bigger issue might be keeping it from freezing up on cold nights.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Princeton, MA
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    370

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    Here is my experience. A couple years ago I used a Shurflo 4008 to draw vacuum plus transfer up 25' elevation through 550 ft of 1/2" pipe when tank was full. When pumping up the hill I lost half the vacuum. And pump rate was closer to 1 gpm. Now I use separate pumps so my vacuum stays steady around 25". A 4008 pump is used for vacuum and pumps into a tank, and a 5gpm transfer pump is used to pump uphill when tank is full. I get about 2gpm pump rate up the hill. There is a drain valve to drain the line when pumping is done. I have everything automated using tank level sensors, check out my website listed at bottom of page. If you don't want to use a collection tank, you could tee in a drain valve to the pump outlet as one of my customers did. The normally-open drain valve opens to drain the transfer line when pump is turned off, so sap doesn't remain in the line.

    Dave
    Mountain Maple farm
    2020: 207 taps, 60% red maples. Mountain Maple S3 diaphragm pump controller with automated sap transfer
    New website:
    https://www.mountainmaplefarm.com
    https://www.facebook.com/MountainMapleFarm/

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
    Posts
    5,006

    Default

    Yes, if pulling vacuum and pumping simultaneously, you'll see less vacuum and lower pumping capacity.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

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