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Thread: Sap going backwards?

  1. #11
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    Very simply (not perfect explanation in all circumstances), sap in 3/16" tubing under natural vacuum is being pushed down by the weight of sap above it (or, depending upon how you want to think about it, pulled down by gravity, which does not change and cause backflow), whereas sap in 5/16 lines is being pulled down by the pump. If the driving force (vacuum) changes during releaser dumps or small leaks or by interrupted air flow though pooled areas of sap in the mainline, backflow will result. When the vacuum changes in this way, sap can move backwards in response. The amount depends upon the circumstances. Some things reduce this happening (electric releasers and good leak correction) and some things mean it happens more (mechanical releasers, sap ladders, leaks, improper tubing system layout, installation or maintenance).
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatetreehugger View Post
    Spud, what do you get for production numbers each year using cv2s? What level of vacuum do you like to run?
    I’m always coming up a bit shy on hitting .5 per tap. I run 27 inches of vacuum in my woods. I think because my average tree size is 10 inches prevents me from hitting .5. My tubing is 9 years old.

    Spud

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by spud View Post
    I’m always coming up a bit shy on hitting .5 per tap. I run 27 inches of vacuum in my woods. I think because my average tree size is 10 inches prevents me from hitting .5. My tubing is 9 years old.
    Yup, that’s darn good for trees that size and 9 yr old tubing. Good case study for CV use and high-vacuum.
    Last edited by DrTimPerkins; 03-25-2020 at 07:17 PM.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  4. #14
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    Thank you Spud, I sell my sap and am slowly working up to 10000 taps. Trying to do anything I can to increase my yields so I think I might give cv2s a try. Do you clean your tubing?
    2016- 50 buckets. Made 4 gallons
    2017- 100 buckets, 50 taps on 3/4 mainline and 3/16th tubing + shurflo vacuum. Made 30 gallons.
    2018- 1000 taps on 3/16 + vacuum, 60 buckets - made 378 gallons of syrup.
    2019- 1713 taps on 3/16 + vacuum, NO buckets. Made 500 gallons.
    2020- 2793 taps made 1118 gallons.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimatetreehugger View Post
    Thank you Spud, I sell my sap and am slowly working up to 10000 taps. Trying to do anything I can to increase my yields so I think I might give cv2s a try. Do you clean your tubing?
    I have never cleaned my tubing and would highly recommend other not too also. I almost never have an animal chew and want it to stay that way.

    Thanks Dr. Tim

    Spud

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by spud View Post
    I have never cleaned my tubing and would highly recommend other not too also. I almost never have an animal chew and want it to stay that way.
    Same here. Drops range from new to 11+ Yrs old. We don't normally replace drops, but do when we are doing experiments just to equalize everything.

    Similarly with cleaning -- we don't clean tubing UNLESS it is for an experiment to see how some sanitizer works. I can tell you with a great degree of confidence that cleaning with bleach attracts x&&3@!!! squirrels. We have twelve test plots in one area. Four were bleach cleaned. All of those are having continuous squirrel problems this year, which means the entire woods in that area is having continuous vacuum issues, which will negatively affect our total production this season. The other plots we didn't use bleach in have way less damage, but still are getting some along the borders of the bleach cleaned sections. As long as I'm around we are DONE with bleach cleaning. Maybe rinsing would help (we let the first run of sap flow on the ground instead), but I'm not going to try it again.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  7. #17
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    10-4 thanks for the input. I ruled out bleach a while ago after hearing of some local guys having issues with squirrels. Then Dr. Tim reiterated that with his posts earlier this year about their issues. We can easily access our lines and pump water. If we do anything, I guess that will be it.
    380 gravity taps
    2x6 Darveau Mystique Oil Fired Evaporator
    Wesfab 7” filter press
    IBC totes in the woods, 800 Gallon CDL bulk tank at the shack

  8. #18
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    The attached figure shows what happens with air/water cleaning (purple line) and other replacement style sanitation strategies. It really is not terribly effective...but makes you feel good perhaps. Not really worth the cost (labor) of doing it. This graph is for vacuum systems. Gravity systems will follow a similar trend, but just start out with lower yields.

    sanitation.jpg
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  9. #19
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    I stopped cleaning my tubing when I changed over to CV adapters which I did when they first came out and I have since changed over to CV2's. My tap holes stay open and I get good runs right up to the end of the season every year. Some of my tubing and drops are 15 years old. I never used bleach, only water when I did clean and noticed since I stopped cleaning that I don't get as much green algae in my tubing. Like others that don't clean I let the first run go on the ground.
    Russ

    "Red Roof Maples" Where the term "boiling soda" was first introduced to the maple producing world!

    Algier 2x6 evaporator, W F Mason arch
    Lapierre 250 Turbo RO machine
    SP-22 vacuum pump
    1930 Ford Model AA Doodlebug tractor
    1971 IH 454 52hp diesel tractor
    A couple of Honda 4 wheelers
    About a dozen chainsaws and no chickens

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