Basic question: tubing on flat ground?

[Sugarmaker]

Your quantity of buckets is not overwhelming. You might just want to stay with them. The tubing will get the sap to one place. It may cost you $6-$8 dollars per tap, maybe more.
If you can try to boil during the week when you have sap you will make higher quality syrup and get the sap out of th containers. Might be good to think about a rinse on the containers each week or when the weather is warm.
Regards,
Chris

[30AcreWoods]

There is the price issue to consider as well. Good point, Chris.

In theory, you should be able to develop a vac. with the larger tubing, but it is more challenging. I believe that letting air into the system will create more issues than it solves. My best performance on the 3/16" lines is when everything is tight and the only air exposed is that at the end of the line into the tank. Fittings/blockages haven't been an issue either, but I do walk the lines and check to make sure they are clear (inside and out) and check for squirrel nibbles and replace them if needed. Once the vacuum is established, the fittings don't really cause any issues because you are in pressure flow - which is different than say water running around a rock in a stream. Yes, it does create some turbulence and restriction, I suppose, but the velocity isn't so great that those factors override the benefits.

[stimyg]

Thanks for the responses everyone! Lots to digest. I actually have a question about what seems like the simplest system, barely qualifies as a tubing system at all:

OK
In my experience individual 5 gallon buckets with short tubing into a sealed collection pail are the most effective way to collect sap UNLESS you have a substantial amount of slope in your grove such that you have gravity on your side and or produce natural vacuum and/or you have a pump/vacuum on your lines. //

In my experience, the individual buckets on 3 foot drops to tightly sealed 5 gallon pales with CV taps also seem to last every single bit as long as those on long runs of gravity tubing.

Interesting. Even 5 gallon buckets would help a lot, given that I'm only up to collect on weekends, and often my 3 gallon buckets are overrunning with sap. One question here: I'm assuming CV taps means check valve spouts, right? I ask because I've heard good things about the Zap Bac spouts ( https://www.bascommaple.com/item/spmicrob/ ), which don't seem to be CV. Any opinions on which would be better if I'm just dropping straight into 5 gallon buckets? The hope is to keep the tap hole open and running as long as possible, obviously...

[30AcreWoods]

Yes, CV = check valve. The data show that they outperform regular spouts. One reason is that they don't allow the trees to uptake sap from the drop lines which may have a lot of bacteria. Thus, they keep the tap open longer. I have no experience with the Zap Bacs, and thus can't comment. I would say that though they may perform better than a standard seasonal spout, I can't see how they'd be better than CV spouts that completely shut-out uptake. Cost is also an issue for most of us. I do replace my spouts every year, and I replace my drop lines and tees every 2-3 years.

[30AcreWoods]

Oh, and have fun and experiment with your situation! Every piece of land is different. What works for us, may not be best for you. I think most folks on here will tell you that the more time goes on, the more they learn about the "microclimate" of the sugar bushes they work. I have four lines all within spitting distance of each other. But I've learned which ones will run first in the season, and which ones will run late. It's fascinating stuff (I think).

[Sugar Bear]

Thanks for the responses everyone! Lots to digest. I actually have a question about what seems like the simplest system, barely qualifies as a tubing system at all:

Interesting. Even 5 gallon buckets would help a lot, given that I'm only up to collect on weekends, and often my 3 gallon buckets are overrunning with sap. One question here: I'm assuming CV taps means check valve spouts, right? I ask because I've heard good things about the Zap Bac spouts ( https://www.bascommaple.com/item/spmicrob/ ), which don't seem to be CV. Any opinions on which would be better if I'm just dropping straight into 5 gallon buckets? The hope is to keep the tap hole open and running as long as possible, obviously...

I recommend that you take NOBODIES advice on this regarding CV taps VS ZB taps and put in half of your taps as CV and half as ZB and determine for yourself which do better. Politics is a part of every product on the planet, both good and bad. Zap Back were designed out your way in NY. Check Valve were designed and patented in Vermont. I have noticed that the people in VT believe in the CV tap and everybody along the Southern Tier of NY believes in the ZB tap.

Both are ingenious and simple concepts.

One may well work better then the other in one season.

One may well work better then the other over several season in a row.

At .45 cents each they are only cheap according to the people who designed and patented them. "Everything I make is cheap and a great deal"

If you do your own research on them, which I highly recommend PLEASE LET ME KNOW HOW IT GOES!

As for me I use CV and Clear and it "seems" ( can not say for certain ) that the CV last a little longer then the clear ( same spout as CV but without the CV ).

I have never used Zap Back, but have heard a very large sugar maker near you say good things about them.

5 gallon buckets will fill up easily on a single tap in one week. I have had them fill up in one day when the going is fresh and good. They probably will not fill up in late January early Feb even if temps are ideal. But if you tap in early MARCH under prime conditions you will fill a 5 gallon bucket in one week on one tap. If not then you taped a bad spot or an OAK tree.

ONE OF THE KEY PROMLEMS HERE IS THAT 5/16 SAP LINES WILL NOT TRANSPORT SAP VERY WELL UNLESS VACCUM IS PUT ON THAT LINE. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO ACCOMPLISH THAT EVEN WITH DECENT SLOPE/DROP on 5/16 TUBING. ELECTRICTY AND A PUMP ARE REQUIRED.

Based on the slope you said you have you either want one of the three.

1) individual 5 gallon buckets with 5/16 drops to each. Spout types are your choice and experimentation is an incredibly informative thing.

2) A larger 3/4" or 1" inch mainline sloping toward your collection tank. This mainline will have 5/16 inch T connectors in it and these T connectors should have no more then 5 taps running into them. 2 or 3 each would be better. So if you have 50 taps and have 5 taps on each run into a T on the mainline then you will have 10 T's in your mainline. Mainline must have some slope to your collection tank. And I believe it would behoove you to vent the mainline at the end far opposite where it dumps into the collection tank. I think Wilmont would agree with that vent. Not sure about that however. Compare your mainline to the garden hose. Ever notice how when you disconnect the garden hose form the house water runs out the other end. Ahaa! Don't bother experimenting with different spouts here as you will not know which did which.

3) Bring some electricity and a pump out to the sugarbush. and O yae ... get a bigger storage tank.

Hope this helps.


There are a lot of politics behind every product

[Sugar Bear]

Yes, CV = check valve. The data show that they outperform regular spouts. One reason is that they don't allow the trees to uptake sap from the drop lines which may have a lot of bacteria. Thus, they keep the tap open longer. I have no experience with the Zap Bacs, and thus can't comment. I would say that though they may perform better than a standard seasonal spout, I can't see how they'd be better than CV spouts that completely shut-out uptake. Cost is also an issue for most of us. I do replace my spouts every year, and I replace my drop lines and tees every 2-3 years.

The Zap Bacs work on the concept of silver mixed into the polymer of the tap. Silver is used in various objects to kill bacteria or keep bacteria from transporting itself.

I do not know this for scientific fact of from my own observations and operations, but I have been told that Oderless Socks have silver in them to kill the bacteria that grows on feet/socks and causes them to stink.

I surmise that the silver that was placed in teeth for many years and still is in various situations, also killed bacteria and in and of itself prevented further tooth decay around the margins of the filling. Whether that was by design or was inadvertent is not known according to the several dentists I have asked about it.

Like the concept the CV spout the Zap Bac tap is an ingenious design. Whether it is more effective on the task it was designed for is unclear to me.

[30AcreWoods]

Sugar Bear, thanks for all of that insight! It always comes down to politics...

Oh, would silver socks work for hockey smells? I haven't seen any sanitizer on this planet yet make a hockey bag smell better

[Sugar Bear]

Sugar Bear, thanks for all of that insight! It always comes down to politics...

Oh, would silver socks work for hockey smells? I haven't seen any sanitizer on this planet yet make a hockey bag smell better

If they had a silver spray it might work, but I would bet that they have not been able to get that approved.

Most of the good ideas that are out their that were made by people, were not really made by them. They were just good ideas from somebody else that were implemented on something else.

I am going to try some zap bacs at some point next to some CV's at some point. Just have not gotten around to it yet.

[Sugar Bear]

Try grinding a pair of silver socks up into a fine dust ... very fine ... add it to a warm bottle of water ... shake well ... put it in a spray bottle ... shake again.. spray your hockey equipment ( before it smells ).

Smell for any possible results as appropriate.

Let me know if you do get results.