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Thread: Modified my NextGen single post 4x40 to a dual unit in series

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Merrimack, NH
    Posts
    593

    Default Modified my NextGen single post 4x40 to a dual unit in series

    Decided to try and upgrade my NextGen RO to a 2 post 4x40 in series system. Its basically a prefilter housing into a Procon Series 4 pump running on a 3/4hp motor.

    With some help from fellow Maple Traders I came up with my plan on how I was going to proceed.

    I bought a new SS housing from Amazon

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    and 2 new Dow XLE-4040 Membranes
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...51M99A6BKVGZNT

    Overall the upgrade was not too difficult, after finding the correct position I wanted the new housing to be in on the dolly I drilled 4 holes for the supports.
    IMG_7950.jpg
    and attached it.
    IMG_7951.jpg

    Next came the plumbing. I wanted it to run in series so this is my only concern at this point with the whole setup. I got braided PVC hose to connect my concentrate from the 1st canister into the 2nd. The hose is rated for 200PSI, I generally run the RO at about 210-215psi. I know the hose can handle a bit more than its rated for and I certainly dont want to push it or risk any damage. Ive got my eye on potentially purchasing a steel braided 48" hose from McMaster-Carr https://www.mcmaster.com/flexible-braided-hose its about $115 plus shipping.

    IMG_7955.jpg

    I want to clean up the permeate lines so that they look more symmetrical. they will connect to a T and dump into my permeate tank.

    Lastly I will install the new filters tonight and run some distilled water through the system to rinse out the membranes, but I think I should be good to go.

    If anyone see's any issues, please let me know.

    Thanks!
    -Scott
    2022 4x40" RO, Welch 1397 Vac Pump, 3 Guzzler Pumps, Lapierre Releaser, 1100 taps
    2021 Twin Baby Boys, Close to 650 taps
    2020 Upgraded RO to 2 post and 7GBS Pump. 265 taps
    2019 Smoky Lake 2x6 raised flue, Autodraw system, Maple Jet Filter Press, a beautiful new bride to be my sugaring partner :-)
    2017 Expanded Sugar Shack, new 2x6 with float box, NEXTgen Maple RO, 250+ taps, still on sap sacks
    2016 Sugar Shack, 2x6 evaporator, 160 taps, all on Sap Sacks
    2014 110 taps
    2013 35 taps

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    11,544

    Default

    While it's true there is a safety margin on that hose, I would buy the right stuff. I suggest you call Steve at NGMP (the owner, and a personal friend, he is a real home guy, he will help you with the right hose, or he might say what you have is good, but trust him.
    Steve visited my sugarhouse with another friend before he ever started NGMP, back when he was a back yard sugarer.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Merrimack, NH
    Posts
    593

    Default

    Thanks Dave, I have been to Steves shop a few times and have spoken to him. I didnt send him any updates on my progress but told him I would be trying this.

    I will pop him a note.

    Thanks!
    -Scott
    2022 4x40" RO, Welch 1397 Vac Pump, 3 Guzzler Pumps, Lapierre Releaser, 1100 taps
    2021 Twin Baby Boys, Close to 650 taps
    2020 Upgraded RO to 2 post and 7GBS Pump. 265 taps
    2019 Smoky Lake 2x6 raised flue, Autodraw system, Maple Jet Filter Press, a beautiful new bride to be my sugaring partner :-)
    2017 Expanded Sugar Shack, new 2x6 with float box, NEXTgen Maple RO, 250+ taps, still on sap sacks
    2016 Sugar Shack, 2x6 evaporator, 160 taps, all on Sap Sacks
    2014 110 taps
    2013 35 taps

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Catskill Mts, Ulster County NY
    Posts
    602

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellsLikeSyrupNH View Post
    Thanks Dave, I have been to Steves shop a few times and have spoken to him. I didnt send him any updates on my progress but told him I would be trying this.

    I will pop him a note.

    Thanks!
    -Scott
    This is very interesting. I have the same single post unit, and want to add another post. I was going to contact NGMP for info and possibly parts. Let us know how it works!
    Gary / Zena Crossroads / 42˚ 00' 24" N / Hobby in Early '70s, Addiction since 2014

    175+ taps on 3/16 (60 of which are on two Lunchbox Vac/Releasers)
    12x34 timber framed sap house w/attached 10x34 shed roof for storage
    2 x 6 Smoky Lake hybrid pan on Corsair arch with AUF/steam hood/preheater/concentric exhaust
    7.0 KW Sun Power PV System, Smokey Lake Filter Press/Steam Bottler, Modified NGMP RO - 2 4x40 posts 200 gph

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Lawrence County Ohio
    Posts
    350

    Default

    Be sure to check out the membranes carefully when you get them. I ordered two from Amazon last year when I upgraded my Deer Run. One was a Dow, one was a knockoff. I didn't know any better til the permeate tube broke during my second sap run. I had it past the return window and had to suck up another membrane right at the beginning of the season. Amazon was on 60 minutes a couple weeks ago, they are getting pounded by customers for all the Chinese CRAP they are selling now. My next membranes will be from MES.
    '12 15 jugs - Steam pans
    '17 125 3/16 - 18" x 72" drop flue on homemade arch
    '18 240 3/16 - Deer Run 125
    '19 450 3/16 - Converted RO to electric/added a membrane
    '20 600 3/16 - Maple Pro 2x6 Raised Flue, added AOF/AUF
    '21 570 3/16 - Built steam hood, Smoky Lake filter press
    '22 800 3/16 - Upgraded RO to 4 4x40
    '23 500 3/16 - Re-plumbed RO, new "Guzzler"
    '24 500 3/16 - Steam Away, DIY 8x40 RO

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Location
    Ny
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellsLikeSyrupNH View Post
    Decided to try and upgrade my NextGen RO to a 2 post 4x40 in series system. Its basically a prefilter housing into a Procon Series 4 pump running on a 3/4hp motor.

    With some help from fellow Maple Traders I came up with my plan on how I was going to proceed.

    I bought a new SS housing from Amazon

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    and 2 new Dow XLE-4040 Membranes
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...51M99A6BKVGZNT

    Overall the upgrade was not too difficult, after finding the correct position I wanted the new housing to be in on the dolly I drilled 4 holes for the supports.
    Attachment 20473
    and attached it.
    Attachment 20474

    Next came the plumbing. I wanted it to run in series so this is my only concern at this point with the whole setup. I got braided PVC hose to connect my concentrate from the 1st canister into the 2nd. The hose is rated for 200PSI, I generally run the RO at about 210-215psi. I know the hose can handle a bit more than its rated for and I certainly dont want to push it or risk any damage. Ive got my eye on potentially purchasing a steel braided 48" hose from McMaster-Carr https://www.mcmaster.com/flexible-braided-hose its about $115 plus shipping.

    Attachment 20478

    I want to clean up the permeate lines so that they look more symmetrical. they will connect to a T and dump into my permeate tank.

    Lastly I will install the new filters tonight and run some distilled water through the system to rinse out the membranes, but I think I should be good to go.

    If anyone see's any issues, please let me know.

    Thanks!
    -Scott
    How did it work for you?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    almont
    Posts
    158

    Default

    Can you show more pictures of your setup? I have The Next Gen 45gph RO and would like to upgrade. It has one 2-1/2" x 40" membrane and removes 20-25 gallons of permeate an hour. If I could add a 2nd 2-1/2" membrane that would be an option for me. Did you keep the pump your RO came with or did you upgrade.

    Thanks,

    Clay Stroup
    Clay Stroup
    Stroup's Sugar Bush
    Almont, MI

    2016: 20 taps, 2 gallons
    2017: 80 taps, 12 gallons
    2018: 92 taps, 16 gallons
    2019: 110 taps, 34 gallons
    2020: 140 taps, 31-1/2 gallons
    2021: 155 taps, 32 gallons
    2022: 190 taps, 29-1/2 gallons
    2023: 200 taps, 42 gallons
    Leader WSE 2x6 drop flue
    Mason Steam Pan finishing set up
    D & G 7" Filter Press
    Next Gen 180 HPRO RO
    John Deere Gator 4 x 2
    12 x 18 Sugar Shack built in 2019

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Merrimack, NH
    Posts
    593

    Default

    Hi Clay,
    It ended up working very well for me but I did have to change the pump out. I ended up putting a Goulds 7GBS pump on the system. I was able to run that at about 210PSI and I was taking a 275 gallon container of sap, running it for 2 hours while recirculating and got it down to roughly 75 gallons of concentrate between 6-8%. Cut my boils down to just under 2 hours. Absolutely worked great for me.

    I am going to rebuild it again this summer just to improve the layout of the controls and make it more user friendly for me. Also the Goulds pump requires a feed pump to function. I didnt plan on that originally but once I added it everything worked very smoothly.

    -Scott



    Quote Originally Posted by claystroup View Post
    Can you show more pictures of your setup? I have The Next Gen 45gph RO and would like to upgrade. It has one 2-1/2" x 40" membrane and removes 20-25 gallons of permeate an hour. If I could add a 2nd 2-1/2" membrane that would be an option for me. Did you keep the pump your RO came with or did you upgrade.

    Thanks,

    Clay Stroup
    2022 4x40" RO, Welch 1397 Vac Pump, 3 Guzzler Pumps, Lapierre Releaser, 1100 taps
    2021 Twin Baby Boys, Close to 650 taps
    2020 Upgraded RO to 2 post and 7GBS Pump. 265 taps
    2019 Smoky Lake 2x6 raised flue, Autodraw system, Maple Jet Filter Press, a beautiful new bride to be my sugaring partner :-)
    2017 Expanded Sugar Shack, new 2x6 with float box, NEXTgen Maple RO, 250+ taps, still on sap sacks
    2016 Sugar Shack, 2x6 evaporator, 160 taps, all on Sap Sacks
    2014 110 taps
    2013 35 taps

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Grant michigan
    Posts
    27

    Default

    Did you have any issues running the Goulds 7GBS at that high of pressure? The curve charts for that model only show a max PSI/ dynamic head pressure of around 185psi.
    2014 15 taps 1 gallon on a turkey burner
    2015 100 taps 10 gallons on a smokey lakes full pint
    2016 188 taps, full pint pan, and a home made RO system

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Middlesex, Vermont
    Posts
    320

    Default

    NH, how much was the Gould lump and what were your reasons for going with that over the Prcon style?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mead Maple "It's for the kids..."
    Paul Cerminara
    2019 - First season ever
    -Goal: 3 gallons
    -Season Total: 7.5 gallons - pulled taps after running out of firewood and time
    2020
    Built 2'x8' Oil Fired with Thor drop flue pans
    -Goal: 20 gallons
    -Season Total: 55 gallons

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