5/16 of flat ground with Shurflo 4008

[bryankloos]

Thanks Super Sapper

Seems I would be better off with the 3/16 for my relatively flat woods.
I'll string up 6 legs on 5/16 this year with no more than 10 taps per line.
I'll also make sure I'm sloping as best possible and have as few sags as possible.
I'll take good notes this year on yields and then probably try 3/16 next year to see firsthand what the increase in yield would be...

With my proposed setup, is there a "guesstimate" as to what percentage of sap I will miss versus running 3/16?

I'm hoping its minimal, under 10-15%.

All said, this is my second year, first on tubing and vac, so its a learning experience. I'll have fun with the kids in the woods making syrup either way.

Thanks.

[Noah's Ark]

Bryan,
Are you coming to the CT producers association meeting in January. It is the 18th at Lyman Memorial High School in Lebanon. Bosworth pumps will be giving a presentation on small scale vacuum systems you might find it helpful. There is also going to be a presentation by Kyle Lothian form H2O on improving quality and quantity of syrup for small scale producers. Unless you already have your tubing and fittings you might want to come to the meeting and talk with some of the members and dealers before you make up your mind. Sometimes in person it is easier to give you better advice on your setup. If you want to come see my setup and sugar house send me a message, I would be happy to help you get setup.
Mat

[bryankloos]

Hi Mat,

Thanks for the info. I'm working on the 18th, but may be able to get up to Lebanon in the mid-AM.
Seems like this would be a good event for me to check out.
I'd also love to see your setup. I've got lots to learn, and trying to keep it fun!

Bryan

[bryankloos]

Hi all,

I've laid out the woods, counted taps/line and have a good grasp on slope. Seems that the slope is flat to slightly downhill. No uphill runs, but no major drop either.
I've decided, after reading more and listening to the advice of others that I will swap out to 3/16 instead of the 5/16 lines that I had planned. For the extra $150 it seems I'll be better served with the 3/16.

I'm going to keep my drops 5/16 as I have the CVS taps and line, and will then Tee into 3/16 laterals.

The 6 lines will have between 10 and 20 taps per line, which will all feed into the 6 way star at the Shurflo 4008. I'm hoping the increased sap yield will offset the extra expense of changing over the 3/16. At least I have time to swap out the lines before I tap...

Life is a learning experience...

Thanks,

Bryan

[bmbmkr]

There's lots of personal experience, and science behind the 3/16 vs 5/16 on flat ground with a pump. I'll share with you my limited experience.

I had 60 taps on 3/16, 5 laterals, the longest 800' and the last 300' was pretty flat. I brought all 5 laterals into a 1/2" PVC manifold that I made for about $15. I used nipples, tees and elbows, each lateral came into to it's own tee with the 5/16-1/2 NPT adapter. I used the 5/16-1/2 NPT adapters in the link below. 4 of the 5 laterals transitioned from 3/16 to 5/16 about a hundred ft from the pump. I ran out of 3/16 and had a couple rolls of 5/16 that I keep for making drops. The 5th transitioned right at the manifold. The 5th lateral is very flat, and had 17 sugars and reds, the tubing barely ran downhill from the first to the last tree, but from there to the pump, a distance of 100', it ran uphill about 3' elevation. The shurflo 4008 had no problem pulling sap all the way from the first tree. Once I got the leaks fixed ( all of these laterals have been up for 3 years but were originally running into the mainline, except for the 5th lateral that ran directly into the tank) I got her pulling 25 in/HG. A couple a runs I got 150 gallons from these 60 trees in 24 hours.

In my mainline, (600' 3/4) I had a couple of star fittings, both 4 and 6, and with 3/16 on high slope, 15-30 taps on each, I could go down there and easily see that the star fittings are a bottleneck. The sap would be backed up 3 or 4 ft up the hill from the stars. I took them off this year and ran each lateral into a DSD saddle. I would have sent you these stars but I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Just my 2 cents. For your sap to pump transition, make you a 1/2" manifold, that way you can add a valve to each tee to isolate any vac leaks that may develop. I also use a union from the manifold to the pump, so I could take the pump off if needed.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Ben

[bryankloos]

Very interesting Ben,

So from what I'm hearing from you, 60ish taps all running into a 6-way star fitting will be restrictive at the pump.
Seems logical enough, and a simple manifold makes sense if this is the case.

I wonder if anyone else has noticed this with the star fittings?

Thanks for the advice.

Bryan

[bmbmkr]

Very interesting Ben,

So from what I'm hearing from you, 60ish taps all running into a 6-way star fitting will be restrictive at the pump.
Seems logical enough, and a simple manifold makes sense if this is the case.

I wonder if anyone else has noticed this with the star fittings?

Thanks for the advice.

Bryan

That's just my opinion. As many have stated, Shurflo's don't move a lot of air cfm's, but they move liquid really good. I'm just theorizing that the vacuum would be better distributed to each lateral with a pipe manifold than a star. Then again, the stars are used for sap ladders, which transfer vacuum...

I know that for my gravity lines, the stars were definitely slowing down the sap entering the mainline.

On the shurflo set up I described below, I was pulling all 5 lines, then pumping out a single 5/16 line that ran 100' down the hill, about 8' drop, to my collection tank. On days when I went out to turn it on and the sap was already running, It would be pouring out all 5 laterals, and showing 5-10 in/Hg on the gauge.

One way or another, you're goin to love that little pump!

[VTnewguy]

Number one suggestion would be to make sure you set up a re-circulation line. The shurflo pump works best when it's moving liquid.

[kudu]

This is my first year trying a Shurflo 4008 pump. I have a woods that gradually slopes to the north in 3 different spots and I run mainline to each area. No more than 15' fall for the entire line of close to 600' long. I installed the pump on 3/4" mainline, 225 taps with camlock fittings so I could remove it but still let sap flow when it was too cold to pump in the morning, as I worked until the afternoon when I install the pump. First good run I was getting 15-20 inches of vacuum and probably had 75% more sap flowing on that line. I bought a second pump and installed it on another 3/4" main with 170 taps, it also added about 75% more sap flow with 15-20 inches of vacuum. I have a third line that has only about 75 taps that is all gravity, no pump at this time, but I will get another pump for it next year, I figured I paid for the pump and battery and fittings the first hard run. Got close to 4000 gallons of sap so far this year. I don't like having to pull the pump and battery before every freeze, but no electricity, so I just get the added benefit of part time vacuum.