Using cv spouts on drops to buckets
I have a question for all you experienced traders that use the cv spouts. Would it be beneficial for me to use these on the 5 gallon containers I set up for gathering on the drops either single or as a double with a tee depending on the size of the tree. Or do I continue to just use the disposable 5/16 spiles. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks Pat
At about $.12 a foot for 5/16 it would cost approx. the same to just use new tubing and seasonal spout. With that I would go with a new drop line and seasonal spout.
Smoky Lake 2x6 dropflu pans and hoods on homemade arch
Smoky Lake 6 gallon water jacked bottler
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250 Deer Run RO
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I use CVs on my drop-to-bucket taps and have had those run hard all the way into April from an early-February tapping date. Seems worth it to me if you have a chance of a relatively long season and/or wish to reuse your drop tubing.
42.82N
2015 - Small operation. 25 buckets. One excited 5 year old and one 35 year old that feels 5 again.
2016 - One year older. New Homemade 2x4 Arch, Smoky Lake Pan and looking at 52 maples, 17 box elders and 2 walnut trees.
2017 - Shurflo 4008 hooked to 42 stingy silver maples and a few Norways. A couple buckets on sugars and Norways. 10 box elders.
2018 - ...a few more taps.
2019 - ...more taps on 3/16 gravity. This spiral is heading downward in a hurry.
2020 - 4x400 RO - RB20 (uh-oh!)
According to research I think I read that CV taps on gravity are of little advantage. I suggest seasonal spouts. I might however use CV spouts if on 3/16 drops, because since some of the sap in the drop as the tree freezes can be pulled back up. Early in the season would not be an issue, but late season it could be an issue.
Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.
Thank you for all the information. I'll stick with the seasonal spiles and 5/16 tubing.
I'm wondering though if there would be benefits in minimizing bacteria growth during the season. Or maybe without any real vacuum, i.e. drop to a bucket, they wouldn't help. I guess their primary use is in keeping sap from backing into the hole, rather than bacteria from the air.Originally Posted by maple flats
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Dave Barker
2014 30 taps, steam tray pans
2015 ~100 taps, in conjunction with University of Louisville
2x5 Smoky Lake hybrid pan
2022 150 taps
The CV system was designed to work in vacuum tubing system. The ball is actuated by liquid or air flow (pressure difference). We have never tried it in gravity settings, however Steve Childs (Cornell University) has. You should look that information up (most of it is in the Cornell Tubing Notebook), but to summarize...he did find a benefit to using CVs on gravity in terms of incrased sap yield, however it was at a lower amount than in vacuum systems (not greatly surprising). The real question is not whether you can collect more sap with CVs over regular spouts (you can), but whether it is economical to do so. Again, in general, it is, but the economics are closer (lower profit margin) on gravity than they are on vacuum (good profit margin).
Dr. Tim Perkins
UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
https://mapleresearch.org
Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu
I speak in terms of 5/16" tubing only and have no experience with 3/16"
On gravity I get more sap on individual buckets with short and straight drops then a assortment of sets of connected lines into say one larger 50 gallon tank, even with good vertical drop.
No doubt about it on the trees I tap.
My explanation for this is that T's impede flow. Muck like rocks in a river impede flow. In fact it is not uncommon for people to make nice swimming holes in Vermont with rocks.
The more T's you put in you tubing the more your tubing tries to make a swimming hole. And i would wonder if this is the real reason 5/16" fails to create much natural vacuum. RATS!
It does seem that the CV spout last a little longer into the season for me then the regular clear spout. For example the CV taps are more likely to make it through a early march warm spell then the regular taps.
But in my experience it seems to me to be a fairly nominal difference in life span of the taps.
Individual buckets give me more sap, but I have a tough time with individual 5 gallon buckets overflowing on me. And can't afford bigger individual buckets. So I use both set ups.
If you think it's easy to make good money in maple syrup .... then your obviously good at stealing somebody's Maple Syrup.
Favorite Tree: Sugar Maple
Most Hated Animal: Sap Sucker
Most Loved Animal: Devon Rex Cat
Favorite Kingpin: Bruce Bascom
40 Sugar Maple Taps ... 23 in CT and 17 in NY .... 29 on gravity tubing and 11 on 5G buckets ... 2019 Totals 508 gallons of sap, 7 boils, 11.4 gallons of syrup.
1 Girlfriend that gives away all my syrup to her friends.
Thanks for sharing. I have only used buckets/bags as all my trees are in a residential area and tubing just won't fly. I'm planning on trying cv spouts with 5/16 tubing directly into buckets; some trees will have 2 taps with a tee, then to a bucket. My experiment is to see if those taps remain viable longer than the regular open bucket spouts. I expect the flow to be diminished some due to the cv with no vacuum. I'm planning on having the end of the tube submerged so there is minimal air getting into the tubing.
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Dave Barker
2014 30 taps, steam tray pans
2015 ~100 taps, in conjunction with University of Louisville
2x5 Smoky Lake hybrid pan
2022 150 taps
If you do it this way, make sure your droplines into the buckets are long (24"+) to prevent sap from being drawn back out of the bucket when the trees freeze. Trees can pull liquid up a tubing line 15-18" due to the suction created during a freeze cycle.
The other problem with doing it this way is that the liquid in the bucket can freeze, and the sap won't be able to start running again until it thaws.
A better approach to avoid having air moving into the tubing might be to rig up a simple loop in the tube to act as a liquid trap.
Dr. Tim Perkins
UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
https://mapleresearch.org
Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu
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