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Thread: Very Quiet in the Mountain State

  1. #11
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    I also think climate change is real but I'm not sure to what degree man caused vs natural causes. The earth has gone thru at least 5 ice ages, in between it got real warm and at that time there were either no people of so few they could not affect the climate. Much was caused by other factors like big asteroids hitting the earth, or large volcano eruptions, spewing thousands of tons of vulcannic ash into the atmosphere, causing a solar winter. Man and his dirty ways certainly tips the scale of pollution in the wrong direction, but is it 1%, 2% or even more that is really caused by human activity? I don't think anyone really knows.
    Dave Klish about 1320 taps in '15, downsized after I lost my help, about 450-500 planned for 2021 (and after?)
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  2. #12
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    Dr, Tim,

    A well thought out response on climate change. I agree in the large part and think on the same lines. I want to see scientific data and not presumptions. Oddly you mention fish , as that was my career. I retired from a career as a Hatchery manager. Water quality was a big issue with me and you are spot on about the acid rain and water pollution as a whole. You hear the EPA maligned a lot, but without them we would be in a very sad state of affairs. I remember burning rivers and oil slicks. I knew lakes that where the prettiest blue and green water you ever seen, but sterile as a surgical suite when it came to aquatic life. This ole earth is a great healer if we will act responsibly and be good stewards. We suffered mass deforestation in our past history and we seen many species almost extirpated, but due to the diligent science of our grandfathers and fathers we have seen a lot of those come back. I do think there is some unnecessary panic over carbon loading, but it's still an issue. Panic is the stepchild of political alarmist and serve agendas that are not necessarily good science or law. Balance is usually the key. I think we are experiencing cyclic change but the extremes are driven by human dynamics that tip the scales.

    On the other question......yeah I didn't think you'd take that bait. Yet I am a fully engaged Christian and I wouldn't dismiss it either. What I do believe is God expects us to be be good stewards of his creation and he did not give it to us to destroy. All knowledge is a gift. You may or may not agree with that and I am ok with that too. We all have a free choice.
    100 -110 taps
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by maple flats View Post
    Man and his dirty ways certainly tips the scale of pollution in the wrong direction, but is it 1%, 2% or even more that is really caused by human activity? I don't think anyone really knows.
    George knows!

    https://youtu.be/ko3w02ycBwI

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye gold View Post
    On the other question......yeah I didn't think you'd take that bait. Yet I am a fully engaged Christian and I wouldn't dismiss it either. What I do believe is God expects us to be be good stewards of his creation and he did not give it to us to destroy. All knowledge is a gift. You may or may not agree with that and I am ok with that too. We all have a free choice.
    I agree that wise use (and not waste) along with stewardship of resources is the best course. My personal philosophy is to live and let live (tolerance)...which I think is a common Vermont attitude.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins View Post
    I agree that wise use (and not waste) along with stewardship of resources is the best course. My personal philosophy is to live and let live (tolerance)...which I think is a common Vermont attitude.
    That's the attitude in Canaan Valley! It's often likened to VT in very many ways including weather. Just less money and cost of living

    ps. Tim, do you know mike rechlin?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by canaanmaple View Post
    That's the attitude in Canaan Valley! It's often likened to VT in very many ways including weather. Just less money and cost of living
    The cost of living and similarity to VT makes WV tempting as a place to retire to in a few years...as long as I could find a place in a warmer valley. Vermont has a lot going for it, but winters are too long and it is getting too costly to live here. I've had enough of the cold and snow to last me a while. Time to head to somewhere in the Caribbean. Different kind of sugar...will have to switch to rum I guess.

    Retirement locale may be dictated in part by where my daughter ends up after her husband's medical fellowship (pediatric gastroenterology) ends.

    ps. Tim, do you know mike rechlin?
    Sure do. Talked to him a little just a month ago at the North American meeting in MN.
    Last edited by DrTimPerkins; 12-04-2019 at 05:24 PM.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  7. #17
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    The second Southern Maple symposium will be this coming Summer somewhere in West Virginia, as more info becomes available we will keep you posted!

    Mark 220 Maple
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  8. #18
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    Mark- thanks for the tour of your sugarbush back in July. Ive been trying to build the network of Missouri producers and getting some press coverage. Been cleaning buckets and spiles during these Holidays. Maybe we can come over to your seminar in summer 2020. John my website: mosyrup.com
    2019: 205 trees, most smaller than 20" diameter, made 25 gallons
    5/16" plastic spiles, drain into plastic buckets or sapsaks
    haul sap out of woods using atv & trailer
    wood-fired pans on concrete blocks
    one Leader Half Pint 24 x 33" plus 24 x 30 ss pan from a junkyard
    cook batch process then finish in the kitchen;
    we dont sell our syrup; its for family & friends
    see website www.mosyrup.com

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins View Post
    Climate change is real. For a long time now the "window" for maple production all across the northeast (where we have the best records) was shrinking as the production season started earlier and ended earlier and the season duration was getting reduced. Seasonal total yields were decreasing very slowly as a result.

    Research into how to boost sap yields and on timing of tapping showed that as long as we tapped early, used good vacuum, and practiced very good spout and drop sanitation, we could actually maintain good sap flows for 3-4 months. Yields are about double or more than they were 20 yrs ago and we have reversed the loss in season duration in a big way.

    What people generally don't think about is that there are actually both fall (Oct-Nov) and spring (Feb-Apr) sap flow seasons, with a period mostly without good flows (winter) in the middle. Most producers don't tap in the fall for a variety of reasons (getting colder, lower sap sugar content). With climate change however, those two distinctly separate sap flow seasons are getting closer and closer together. Depending on how much climate warms and how fast, these will likely merge at some point....or at least be close enough so that you might be able to tap in the fall and still collect from the same taphole in the spring.

    We are currently engaged (2020 will be our third year) in doing research to determine just how long we can keep a taphole viable or whether there are other strategies to rejuvenate early tapholes WITHOUT creating a second wound or making the original wound substantially wound. I will also note here that tapping above or below a recent taphole with the idea of not making a larger wound by falling within the same staining column as created by the original wound (as you might have seen or heard about) is extraordinarily difficult. We find that tapping just a few inches above or below a previous taphole can entirely miss the original stain a good percentage of the time, and that most of the time the best is that it only results in a somewhat larger wound volume. It is not a recommended practice at this time.

    It's on the long side (48 min), but we have a video presentation on this on our YouTube page at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAm5...v&index=2&t=2s

    The "sapling" project is another climate change adaptation strategy. Small stems both freeze and thaw considerably faster than large stems, so production will likely be somewhat better in a warming climate.

    I often think our motto at UVM PMRC should be...Trying the crazy stuff so maple producers don't have to.
    Interesting research. I assumed there was research going on with regard to climate change and maple production.
    Do you know of any Southern state producers who have adopted the "fall to spring" tapping cycle?
    On one hand this has the potential to greatly expand production, on the other having the season last for 4 months sounds exhausting! Keeping everything clean, etc.

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    Dave
    2014 30 taps, steam tray pans
    2015 ~100 taps, in conjunction with University of Louisville
    2x5 Smoky Lake hybrid pan

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fisheatingbagel View Post
    Interesting research. I assumed there was research going on with regard to climate change and maple production.
    Do you know of any Southern state producers who have adopted the "fall to spring" tapping cycle?
    On one hand this has the potential to greatly expand production, on the other having the season last for 4 months sounds exhausting! Keeping everything clean, etc.
    This is not intended as a slight, but most production areas outside Vermont/Quebec and some other areas are just catching on to high yield techniques using high vacuum, proper tubing/vacuum installation and operation, and newer sanitation practices. That isn't because those areas can't have high yields, but simply because the knowledge base to transfer the information and practices necessary hasn't been there until quite recently. Some producers are learning fast though, and there are some people who are doing a really good job. Very frequently we hear "that can't be done here because of xxxx". I don't believe that. Eventually some producer comes along who does do all the right things and gets great results and the neighbors start realizing...gee...that is possible. Because of that delay, and because we aren't there, we haven't really been able to test this concept in those areas yet. We are only just starting to test it in the north to get some early indications of what the possibilities are.
    Last edited by DrTimPerkins; 01-09-2020 at 09:50 AM.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

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