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Thread: New RO Membranes

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Merrimack, NH
    Posts
    508

    Default New RO Membranes

    Hi All,
    I am upgrading my single post RO to a double post and just purchased a new SS housing for the 2nd and 2 new membranes, Dow XLE 4040. My question is, do I need to clean these out before my 1st use? should I get some Distilled water and run it through them for a while to flush out any of the manufacturer coatings or chemicals in them etc....

    Thanks in advance!
    -Scott
    2019 New Smoky Lake 2x6 raised flue, Simplicity Autodraw system, The Maple Guys Maple Jet Filter Press, a beautiful new bride to be my sugaring partner :-)
    2018 Deployed to the Middle East, no surgaring for me :-(
    2017 Expanded Sugar Shack, new 2x6 with float box, NEXTgen Maple RO, 250+ taps (I hope for 300), still on sap sacks
    2016 New Sugar Shack, 2x6 evaporator, 160 taps, all on Sap Sacks
    2015 Deployed to the Middle East
    2014 110 tap all tubed buckets.
    2013 35 taps, all buckets

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Newport, NH
    Posts
    1,054

    Default

    Well first off … "THANKS FOR YOUR SERVICE"

    I would definitely wash and rinse the membranes before using …. if nothing more for piece of mind …

    Dave
    2x5 SS home design on a home design arch w/ forced draft
    SS Evaporation Enhancement Unit
    Home design filter / canner
    Daryl Sheets filter press
    300 taps (280 on line, 20 buckets)
    120 gph Home Design RO
    2017 Chevy Silverado w/ 275 gallon tank
    8x16 sugarhouse w/ attached woodshed
    A wife, family and friends that love to help!!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Chatham NH
    Posts
    1,160

    Default

    I think that I ran about 100 gallons of sap through mine when they were new, sent it all to the drain, and then I started saving the sap/concentrate after that. You want to soak the membranes for 24hrs before using them. A bucket of water that isn't heavy on minerals is ideal.
    Last edited by n8hutch; 12-04-2019 at 07:46 PM.
    Nate Hutchins
    Nate & Kate's Maple
    2018 1000 taps?
    20x36 sugarhouse
    CDL 600gph RO
    Franken evaporator, lapierre arch, smokylake pans and a leader hood with pre-heater.
    A wife and 2 kids.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Essex VT
    Posts
    323

    Default

    Your idea to use distilled water is correct. Or soft water that has very little iron and manganese in it will work(and no chlorine). An expert on membranes told me several years ago not to use sap to rinse a new membranes or to rinse storage solutions from a membrane. The stuff is sap will just start to plug the membrane before you even use it.

    Joe
    2004- 470 taps on gravity and buckets
    2006- 590 taps on gravity and buckets 300 gph RO
    2009- 845 taps on vacuum no buckets, 600 gph RO
    2010- 925 taps on vacuum new 2 stage vacuum pump
    2014- 3045 taps on vacuum, new 1200 gph RO
    2015- 3104 taps on vacuum
    2017- 3213 taps on vacuum
    3' x 10' oil fired evaporator with steamaway

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Loudon NH
    Posts
    5,445

    Default

    I flush them with about 100 gallons of well water. City water has chlorine in it so don't use that! Last year I made 200 gallons of permeate out of well water with my old membrane and then flushed my new ones with that. I use MES membranes now and like them better than any of the Dow membranes that I've used in the past.
    Russ

    "Red Roof Maples" Where the term "boiling soda" was first introduced to the maple producing world!

    Algier 2x6 evaporator, W F Mason arch
    Lapierre 250 Turbo RO machine
    SP-22 vacuum pump
    1930 Ford Model AA Doodlebug tractor
    1971 IH 454 52hp diesel tractor
    A couple of Honda 4 wheelers
    About a dozen chainsaws and no chickens

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New Hartford, N.Y.
    Posts
    1,960

    Default

    Russ,

    What DOW membranes did you have and what MES ones are you using now? Does your machine have two 4 x40's?
    I am looking at replacing mine and need to figure out where to go for them.

    Thanks.

    Steve
    2014 Upgrades!: 24x40 sugarhouse & 30"x10' Lapierre welded pans, wood fired w/ forced draft, homemade hood & preheater
    400 taps- half on gravity 5/16, half on gravity 3/16
    Airablo R.O. machine - in the house basement!
    Ford F-350 4x4 sap gatherer
    An assortment of barrels, cage tanks & bulk tanks- with one operational for cooling/holding concentrate
    And a few puzzled neighbors...

    http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/t...uckethead1920/

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Loudon NH
    Posts
    5,445

    Default

    I've used Dow NF90, NF270 and XLE 4040 membranes. The NF90 and XLE 4040 were too slow and the NF270 passed sugar. MES only has one membrane model and I don't know the number. The MES membranes flow fast, almost as fast as the NF270 but don't pass sugar. They clean up nice too.

    My machine has two 4x40's now but I only had one until last year. The people at MES are nice to deal with and the prices are good. In fact I just got a Christmas card from them. I paid less for two MES membranes than what Lapierre wanted for one NF90 membrane.
    Russ

    "Red Roof Maples" Where the term "boiling soda" was first introduced to the maple producing world!

    Algier 2x6 evaporator, W F Mason arch
    Lapierre 250 Turbo RO machine
    SP-22 vacuum pump
    1930 Ford Model AA Doodlebug tractor
    1971 IH 454 52hp diesel tractor
    A couple of Honda 4 wheelers
    About a dozen chainsaws and no chickens

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    9,978

    Default

    Russ, great information. When and if I need new membranes I will check out MES.
    Dave Klish about 1320 taps in '15, doing fewer each year, about 450 planned for 2020 (and after?)
    2012 Mahindra 36 HP 4x4/ loader/cab/heat/AC:-)
    3x8 raised flue evaporator
    250 GPH converted to electric, RO by Ray Gingerich
    6.32 KW solar system, 1.48KW is battery backed up, all net metered
    http://s1041.photobucket.com/albums/...anssugarhouse/
    website: www.cnymaple.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Merrimack, NH
    Posts
    508

    Default

    Thanks everyone!

    Russ, I already purchased the membranes. With my small amount of production (I made a little over 60 gallons last season) I needed to be budget conscious. I was able to find 2 XLE 4040s online for less than the MES Membranes. I certainly would of preferred using MES as they are a local company and not a giant chemical firm like DOW. I just went with what I could get the best price on.

    My next task is to convert my single post to a double post in series. I'm hoping this will save me time as I had in the past always ran my sap through the RO twice to bring up my concentrate. Now hoping to get those higher concentration rates with only 1 pass. Will start that project in the next few weeks.

    -Scott



    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Lampron View Post
    I've used Dow NF90, NF270 and XLE 4040 membranes. The NF90 and XLE 4040 were too slow and the NF270 passed sugar. MES only has one membrane model and I don't know the number. The MES membranes flow fast, almost as fast as the NF270 but don't pass sugar. They clean up nice too.

    My machine has two 4x40's now but I only had one until last year. The people at MES are nice to deal with and the prices are good. In fact I just got a Christmas card from them. I paid less for two MES membranes than what Lapierre wanted for one NF90 membrane.
    2019 New Smoky Lake 2x6 raised flue, Simplicity Autodraw system, The Maple Guys Maple Jet Filter Press, a beautiful new bride to be my sugaring partner :-)
    2018 Deployed to the Middle East, no surgaring for me :-(
    2017 Expanded Sugar Shack, new 2x6 with float box, NEXTgen Maple RO, 250+ taps (I hope for 300), still on sap sacks
    2016 New Sugar Shack, 2x6 evaporator, 160 taps, all on Sap Sacks
    2015 Deployed to the Middle East
    2014 110 tap all tubed buckets.
    2013 35 taps, all buckets

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Loudon NH
    Posts
    5,445

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SmellsLikeSyrupNH View Post
    Thanks everyone!

    Russ, I already purchased the membranes. With my small amount of production (I made a little over 60 gallons last season) I needed to be budget conscious. I was able to find 2 XLE 4040s online for less than the MES Membranes. I certainly would of preferred using MES as they are a local company and not a giant chemical firm like DOW. I just went with what I could get the best price on.

    My next task is to convert my single post to a double post in series. I'm hoping this will save me time as I had in the past always ran my sap through the RO twice to bring up my concentrate. Now hoping to get those higher concentration rates with only 1 pass. Will start that project in the next few weeks.

    -Scott
    If I remember right the MES membranes were about $220 each and the XLE was about the same. The NF membranes were $317 at Atlantic RO and about $450 each at Lapierre. I know that I saved $500 buying my membranes from MES. MES also has good prices on pre filters. I got them there for less than I could on Amazon.

    My membranes are connected in series. I'll have to get the actual number when I start ROing again but I think I was getting 12% on the first pass. I know that I was getting 20% on the second pass.
    Russ

    "Red Roof Maples" Where the term "boiling soda" was first introduced to the maple producing world!

    Algier 2x6 evaporator, W F Mason arch
    Lapierre 250 Turbo RO machine
    SP-22 vacuum pump
    1930 Ford Model AA Doodlebug tractor
    1971 IH 454 52hp diesel tractor
    A couple of Honda 4 wheelers
    About a dozen chainsaws and no chickens

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