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Thread: Pre Heater

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    MN
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    347

    Default Pre Heater

    Hello folks! So I'm planning on building a preheater like the one from Sunrise Metals http://sunriseevaporator.com/wp-cont...ndex.html#p=17. I've read some threads on here talking about vapor lock, with this style of preheater, is this something that I need to worry about? I only notice 1 inlet and 1 outlet, no breather.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Lake County Ohio
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    1,087

    Default

    Not sure how that particular unit works, but my leader pre-heater has a box manifold at ea end.

    The upper end then has a 5/16" vent pipe at the top to which I clamped a 6' length of 5/16 tube.

    Should any pressure build up; this empties into the head tank.
    John Allin

    14x18 Hemlock Timber Frame Sugar House 2009
    Leader 2x6 w/Patriot Raised Flue Pan 2009
    Leader Steam Hood 2014 - Clear Filter Press 2015
    Leader Revolution Pan and SS Pre-Heater 2016
    H20 Innovations Air Injection 2019
    CDL AirTech Pump Hi Vacuum 2019
    06' Gator HPX to collect wood & sap
    14' Ski-Doo Tundra for winter work in the woods
    Great Family 3 grown kids+spouses and 7 grand kids who like the woods
    7th Gen Canadian - Raised in Chardon Ohio - Maple Capital of the World...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    9,778

    Default

    You should have either a vent valve or a tube (going to the head tank or the float box) on each opening on top of the pre-heater to vent air if needed. Much of the need will depend on a few factors like the head of sap (or concentrate) above the outlet and the design of the connections and piping from the pre-heater to the inlet float box.
    I built my own pre-heater out of copper tubing and I have 4 vents on my pre-heater. My head tank bottom is about 16-18" above the outlet on the pre-heater and from there the piping has a slight drop until it gets over the float box. There it drops straight down and then ells to enter the float box which is valved. I have never needed to open the vents. That being said, I would never assemble one without vents.
    Dave Klish about 1320 taps in '15, doing fewer each year, about 450 planned for 2020 (and after?)
    2012 Mahindra 36 HP 4x4/ loader/cab/heat/AC:-)
    added a gooseneck equipment trailer and F350 to tow it to haul more sap
    3x8 raised flue evaporator
    250 GPH converted to electric, RO by Ray Gingerich
    6.32 KW solar system, 1.48KW is battery backed up, all net metered
    http://s1041.photobucket.com/albums/...anssugarhouse/
    website: www.cnymaple.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Middlesex, Vermont
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    Default

    Clicked on the link that tonka posted. Also checked out the one on Smokey Lake's website. Seems like if you could solder pretty well, add the suggested venting ports, and couple that with a steam hood, you could be upping your evaporation rates in no time. I might seriously consider building one when the time came. I think without a hood you're not going to gain enough evaporation rate to pay for the copper but with the hood I think it could gain your some miles per hour
    Mead Maple "It's for the kids..."
    Paul Cerminara
    2019 - First season ever
    -Homemade 275 gallon oil drum arch
    -75 taps, all on traditional buckets and drops into 5 gallon buckets
    -Goal: 3 gallons
    -Season Total: 7.5 gallons - pulled taps after running out of firewood and time
    -Fear: Becoming a member of MT.com and getting bit

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    9,778

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    They really need a hood. Over the years I had 3 different evaporators, a 2x3, a 2x6 and my 3x8, on each I made a hood out of aluminum sheet and all 3 worked well. Then for my current arch I bought a new set of pans (with an RO I needed less flue pan and more syrup pan. The original was 3x2 syrup and 3x6 flue, now I have 3x3 and 3x8) When I ordered the pans I asked the price for the hoods and they said $1950 so I said I'd make my own. When I went to pick up the pans they asked if I had made the hoods yet. I found out they had a very slightly damaged demo unit and wanted $800 for it. Looking at it, the dents were almost un-noticable so I bought the hoods, with 2 steam take offs and the first 4' of 15" SS stack. That hood is better than any I made but my homemade ones always did their jobs. #1 however had no gutter nor pre-heater, #2 & 3 had both and looked good too.
    You can make a hood using aluminum roof flashing or sheet aluminum and pop rivets. I used an aluminum trim brake to make the bends.
    Dave Klish about 1320 taps in '15, doing fewer each year, about 450 planned for 2020 (and after?)
    2012 Mahindra 36 HP 4x4/ loader/cab/heat/AC:-)
    added a gooseneck equipment trailer and F350 to tow it to haul more sap
    3x8 raised flue evaporator
    250 GPH converted to electric, RO by Ray Gingerich
    6.32 KW solar system, 1.48KW is battery backed up, all net metered
    http://s1041.photobucket.com/albums/...anssugarhouse/
    website: www.cnymaple.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    MN
    Posts
    347

    Default

    I'll have to check out smokeylake preheater. I have a steam hood made out of 20 ga stainless. I've done some looking before building a preheater and one thing that sticks out the most is having a pressure release valve/pipe to prevent vapor lock. I noticed only 2 inlet/outlet on the link so that's what made me post about it. From my understanding, the U shaped preheaters the cold enters on the bottom run and gets pushed up around the bend and through the upper run of pipe then out to the float box, trying to avoid any vapor lock this way, is my understanding correct?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Middlesex, Vermont
    Posts
    108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maple flats View Post
    They really need a hood. Over the years I had 3 different evaporators, a 2x3, a 2x6 and my 3x8, on each I made a hood out of aluminum sheet and all 3 worked well. Then for my current arch I bought a new set of pans (with an RO I needed less flue pan and more syrup pan. The original was 3x2 syrup and 3x6 flue, now I have 3x3 and 3x8) When I ordered the pans I asked the price for the hoods and they said $1950 so I said I'd make my own. When I went to pick up the pans they asked if I had made the hoods yet. I found out they had a very slightly damaged demo unit and wanted $800 for it. Looking at it, the dents were almost un-noticable so I bought the hoods, with 2 steam take offs and the first 4' of 15" SS stack. That hood is better than any I made but my homemade ones always did their jobs. #1 however had no gutter nor pre-heater, #2 & 3 had both and looked good too.
    You can make a hood using aluminum roof flashing or sheet aluminum and pop rivets. I used an aluminum trim brake to make the bends.
    Flats, with the “gutter” system you are talking about I would assume that means for condensation to collect off the walls of the hood. Did you bend these in addition or build them and rivet them on? You don’t have any old pics kicking around do you?

    It’s a bitter sweet thing because I’m such a fan of watching things boil and the kids love that sweet steam


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mead Maple "It's for the kids..."
    Paul Cerminara
    2019 - First season ever
    -Homemade 275 gallon oil drum arch
    -75 taps, all on traditional buckets and drops into 5 gallon buckets
    -Goal: 3 gallons
    -Season Total: 7.5 gallons - pulled taps after running out of firewood and time
    -Fear: Becoming a member of MT.com and getting bit

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Middlesex, Vermont
    Posts
    108

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maple flats View Post
    They really need a hood. Over the years I had 3 different evaporators, a 2x3, a 2x6 and my 3x8, on each I made a hood out of aluminum sheet and all 3 worked well. Then for my current arch I bought a new set of pans (with an RO I needed less flue pan and more syrup pan. The original was 3x2 syrup and 3x6 flue, now I have 3x3 and 3x8) When I ordered the pans I asked the price for the hoods and they said $1950 so I said I'd make my own. When I went to pick up the pans they asked if I had made the hoods yet. I found out they had a very slightly damaged demo unit and wanted $800 for it. Looking at it, the dents were almost un-noticable so I bought the hoods, with 2 steam take offs and the first 4' of 15" SS stack. That hood is better than any I made but my homemade ones always did their jobs. #1 however had no gutter nor pre-heater, #2 & 3 had both and looked good too.
    You can make a hood using aluminum roof flashing or sheet aluminum and pop rivets. I used an aluminum trim brake to make the bends.
    Flats, with the “gutter” system you are talking about I would assume that means for condensation to collect off the walls of the hood. Did you bend these in addition or build them and rivet them on? You don’t have any old pics kicking around do you?

    It’s a bitter sweet thing because I’m such a fan of watching things boil and the kids love that sweet steam


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mead Maple "It's for the kids..."
    Paul Cerminara
    2019 - First season ever
    -Homemade 275 gallon oil drum arch
    -75 taps, all on traditional buckets and drops into 5 gallon buckets
    -Goal: 3 gallons
    -Season Total: 7.5 gallons - pulled taps after running out of firewood and time
    -Fear: Becoming a member of MT.com and getting bit

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    9,778

    Default

    For the gutters I bent the bottoms inward and up, then siliconed the corners and the drain. That was on all but the last one I made. On that one I bought some aluminum channel, 1x1x1. I mitered the corners and using a map gas torch and some aluminum rod, I welded the miters (pretty much like brazing). Then I pop riveted it to the bottom of the hood. At the drain, I cut one 1" side out, then added a 3-4" long piece of the same channel and welded that too. In use I discovered it would have been far better to have angled the drain down a little. The drips kept running back and down the side of the pan. I then bent the outer edge of the channel using heat and pliers, but it was not fully right until I put a band clamp arount the channel to give the drips a place to fall into a bucket. If you make one, cut the drain spout to attach at a 5-10 degrees slope and there will be no issue. The channel stock I used was 1x1x1 of 1/8" thick stock.
    Dave Klish about 1320 taps in '15, doing fewer each year, about 450 planned for 2020 (and after?)
    2012 Mahindra 36 HP 4x4/ loader/cab/heat/AC:-)
    added a gooseneck equipment trailer and F350 to tow it to haul more sap
    3x8 raised flue evaporator
    250 GPH converted to electric, RO by Ray Gingerich
    6.32 KW solar system, 1.48KW is battery backed up, all net metered
    http://s1041.photobucket.com/albums/...anssugarhouse/
    website: www.cnymaple.com

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