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Thread: New Line Installs - Brand New Woods

  1. #21
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    DeKalb, NY
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    . Also will only have 3 to 4 taps per lateral 30 to 40 foot runs to the lateral[/QUOTE]

    If you only have 3 or 4 taps per lateral and only 30 to 40 foot laterals, you will not be forming the column of sap necessary for natural vacuum

  2. #22
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    Feb 2011
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    Manchester Maine
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    Ok so probably would be better off with the 5/16 so that I don't have to worry about the plugging issue I do have enough pitch that it will flow down hill but your saying the vacuum probably wont be there so again the 5/16 will be the better . I can have 6 to 10 per line if I hade to I just didn't want to many on a line incase it plugged again I know its hard to give out info not seeing the situation thanks .I will just be happy to have the sap coming to my shack the 5 gallon buckets for the last 10 years are getting old and heavier as I get older thanks
    Backyard sapper

    Mason 2X4 XL with blower
    12x24 post and beam shack
    100 taps on tubing into the shack
    15-20 gallons a year for family and friends

  3. #23
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    Mar 2019
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    Middlesex, Vermont
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukie View Post
    Not to beat this thread to death but after reading all the replies I am still confused I will be installing lines for the first time also. I have my two main lines run 3/4 inch with the wire. The runs are close to 500 feet and pretty good pitch will be using mother nature for vacuum and will never have a vacuum pump! I bought ever thing for my lateral line for 3/16 and will be cleaning my line with only water and blowing out with air . And after reading all the replies I would use 5/16 for the drops and replace all the spouts every year. But after reading the replies I am confused some say that the 3/16 will plug up after the first year but I will have better vacuum on 3/16 so I guess before I run all my lines knowing that I will be cleaning only with water and NOT replacing my lines except the drops every 5 years should I just use 5/16 and be happy with the vacuum from that so I don't plug . I Know there is a lot of variables but plain and simple would you be better off in the long run staying with 5/16 for the long haul sorry to be so long winded but would like to do this right the first time. Also will only have 3 to 4 taps per lateral 30 to 40 foot runs to the lateral
    No I think the thing to take away from this is the fact that keeping very good maintenance on your 3/16" is key to high yields and replacing spouts yearly along with drops every 2-3 years which I don't think is asking too much. Cleaning religiously is a major factor. For me, someone who is only going to be in the 100 tap range and doing this as a hobby for my family and some friends, I don't want to invest too much. Naturally, this "hobby" becomes an obsession and it's naive to think that I won't want more. But because I have huge drops in elevation to work with, I am going to capitalize on this. If I was worried about bulk production, I wouldn't even be thinking about 3/16". It would be 5/16" with high vac.

    I think one thing to sum this up: What size tap/drops is the general consensus?
    Mead Maple "It's for the kids..."
    Paul Cerminara
    2019 - First season ever
    -Homemade 275 gallon oil drum arch
    -75 taps, all on traditional buckets and drops into 5 gallon buckets
    -Goal: 3 gallons
    -Season Total: 7.5 gallons - pulled taps after running out of firewood and time
    -Fear: Becoming a member of MT.com and getting bit

  4. #24
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    Mar 2015
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    Peoria, IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mead Maple View Post
    I think one thing to sum this up: What size tap/drops is the general consensus?
    Like most things in life, it depends. I have my 3/16 laterals going into 3/4 main line and at the end of the main is a vac pump. My vac pump is freeze protected (inside) and has a temp switch that is goes off at 30*. All my drops are 3/16 but with the vac pump running slightly below freezing I am able to keep vac on the lines till the 3/16 freezes up and thus limited back flow into tap holes. I have had great results with this in past seasons with last season being having 8+ weeks of good flow.

    Also for me I like having everything the same size so I only need one tool to install and do repairs.

    If you are a hobby producer than I think it depends on what your goals are for the season. Best practice can apply to everyone but it mostly applies for those who are large producers and the savings and additional revenues add up quick. For the rest of us, its more dependent on what our season goals are and how to best reach them with our limited funds and time.
    Last edited by mol1jb; 09-24-2019 at 01:25 PM.
    2019 - 150 taps 3/16 shurflo, Deer Run 125 dolly RO - 73 gallons
    2018 - 120 taps 3/16 hybrid (shurflo), 2x6 raised flue w/hood, homemade arch w/ AUF & AOF - 34.5 gallons
    2017 - 60 taps 3/16 gravity, oil tank arck w/ steam pans - 12.5 gallons

  5. #25
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    Feb 2011
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    Manchester Maine
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    True I am a hobby producer 25 gallons per year on my old 2x3 barrel stove with 100 taps into 5 gallon buckets I just moved up to a Mason 2x4 xl which will cut the wood and time boiling in half so again not having vacuum and never will so I guess I will try the 3/16 and put 10 trees per line and try to make the laterals longer I will just add them to the main line further down the line and try the 3/16 drops and clean them good every year. Now when I go into my main line I have to go from 3/16 to 5/16 because the connecter that attaches to the wire goes from 3/15 to 5/16 and the connecter which I think is called a saddle that goes into the main line is 5/16 correct or do they make 3/16 saddles ? I will try this for a couple years and if it doesn't work then I will change it out . thanks again every one .
    Backyard sapper

    Mason 2X4 XL with blower
    12x24 post and beam shack
    100 taps on tubing into the shack
    15-20 gallons a year for family and friends

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Chardon, ohio
    Posts
    182

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    Just a quick question here, since we cannot use iso alcohol to clean because it is not labeled for cleaning tubing. how is calcium hypochlorite being used. Mr.
    krueger was using cal-shock, which is a pool cleaner at a much higher concentration than recommended by the manufacturer. certainly not labeled for tubing cleaning, and if you look on the msds from the company that manufactures the product it is listed as a pesticide! , and it leaves a residue that needs to be rinsed out. I am a bit confused both labeled the same and we can use one and not the other? if this is on you tube and in the maple news is this not bad for the industry to be promoting???
    professional tubing installer
    H2o innovation dealer
    16x32 heavy timber frame sugarhouse
    6000 taps on vacuum
    [url]www.photobucket.com/grossmanbrothers[/url
    www.ohiomapleproducts.com

  7. #27
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    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukie View Post
    True I am a hobby producer 25 gallons per year on my old 2x3 barrel stove with 100 taps into 5 gallon buckets I just moved up to a Mason 2x4 xl which will cut the wood and time boiling in half so again not having vacuum and never will so I guess I will try the 3/16 and put 10 trees per line and try to make the laterals longer I will just add them to the main line further down the line and try the 3/16 drops and clean them good every year. Now when I go into my main line I have to go from 3/16 to 5/16 because the connecter that attaches to the wire goes from 3/15 to 5/16 and the connecter which I think is called a saddle that goes into the main line is 5/16 correct or do they make 3/16 saddles ? I will try this for a couple years and if it doesn't work then I will change it out . thanks again every one .
    I believe when using 3/16 you should have 15 taps as a general minimum if you want to get a good boost from gravity. It seems the guidelenes are for 15 to a max of 35 or 37 per lateral. Fewer than 15 does not often give enough of a column of sap for gravity to to it's best work.
    Dave Klish about 1320 taps in '15, doing fewer each year, about 450 planned for 2020 (and after?)
    2012 Mahindra 36 HP 4x4/ loader/cab/heat/AC:-)
    added a gooseneck equipment trailer and F350 to tow it to haul more sap
    3x8 raised flue evaporator
    250 GPH converted to electric, RO by Ray Gingerich
    6.32 KW solar system, 1.48KW is battery backed up, all net metered
    http://s1041.photobucket.com/albums/...anssugarhouse/
    website: www.cnymaple.com

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Middlesex, Vermont
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    124

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    Yeah good call Flats. I meant to mention that. Without enough sap in the line the 3/16 will not produce enough pull to create vacuum.

    I also saw the video about the chemical use. My thought was after initially cleaning with your chemical of choice would be to go through and flush with water and air combo. Thus creating a clean, sanitized line that would be ready for use next season. I think you would need to let the chemical sit for X amount of time before flushing.

    Quick question, does that void the fact that it is no longer an organic product? We all talk about using permeate and vinegar for cleaning our pans, maybe there is a solution close to that maybe someone has tried before?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mead Maple "It's for the kids..."
    Paul Cerminara
    2019 - First season ever
    -Homemade 275 gallon oil drum arch
    -75 taps, all on traditional buckets and drops into 5 gallon buckets
    -Goal: 3 gallons
    -Season Total: 7.5 gallons - pulled taps after running out of firewood and time
    -Fear: Becoming a member of MT.com and getting bit

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Lake County Ohio
    Posts
    1,112

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    Quote Originally Posted by jason grossman View Post
    Just a quick question here, since we cannot use iso alcohol to clean because it is not labeled for cleaning tubing. how is calcium hypochlorite being used. Mr.
    krueger was using cal-shock, which is a pool cleaner at a much higher concentration than recommended by the manufacturer. certainly not labeled for tubing cleaning, and if you look on the msds from the company that manufactures the product it is listed as a pesticide! , and it leaves a residue that needs to be rinsed out. I am a bit confused both labeled the same and we can use one and not the other? if this is on you tube and in the maple news is this not bad for the industry to be promoting???
    Yes it is. . .
    John Allin

    14x18 Hemlock Timber Frame Sugar House 2009
    Leader 2x6 w/Patriot Raised Flue Pan 2009
    Leader Steam Hood 2014 - Clear Filter Press 2015
    Leader Revolution Pan and SS Pre-Heater 2016
    H20 Innovations Air Injection 2019
    CDL AirTech Pump Hi Vacuum 2019
    06' Gator HPX to collect wood & sap
    14' Ski-Doo Tundra for winter work in the woods
    Great Family 3 grown kids+spouses and 7 grand kids who like the woods
    7th Gen Canadian - Raised in Chardon Ohio - Maple Capital of the World...

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Esko,MN
    Posts
    211

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    So, I'm not sure whwt you are planning to do, but if I were to start from the start, I would put in 5/16 drops into 3/16 lines with 20-25 taps per line and drop those into 5/15 pr 1/2" mainline after you have had 30' of drop after the last tap on the 3/16 lines. This will give you the least amount of sap backflow into the tree, will provide you with the maximum natural vacuum and will allow you to run multiple lines into a 5/16 or 1/2 mainline.
    Chad

    2014: 12 taps, 5 gal buckets
    2015: 15 taps on bags
    2016: 150 taps: 100 on bags, 50 on 3/16" natural vac, 2x8 AUF/AOF Homebuilt Arch, 2x8 SL Drop Flu & Auto Draw, SL Propane Canner/Bottler
    2017: 225 taps: Built Lean to, Added SL hood, preheater, concentric exhaust, SL SS 7" SB Filter Press
    2018: 180 taps: Added Shurflo to 50 - 3/16", Auto fill sensor to head tank
    2019: No tapping
    2020: ?

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