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Thread: Agitating sap

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Default Agitating sap

    Pretty quiet around here lately...I've been reading but not much posting.
    I did come across an interesting article in Maple News though about a project CDL and a Vermont producer have been working on where they're re-circulating and "agitating" sap. If i read it correctly, air is introduced and it looks like it either releases bad bacteria or introduces good...(all that is above my pay scale though)

    So; in an effort to increase ratings - and have something to read at the end of the day - I thought I'd start a thread.

    Anyone else try this? It seems like a simple enough process. I installed an H20 Innovation air injection/bubbler system last season in flue and syrup pans with good results and this has me thinking.
    John Allin

    14x18 Hemlock Timber Frame Sugar House 2009
    Leader 2x6 w/Patriot Raised Flue Pan 2009
    Leader Steam Hood 2014 - Clear Filter Press 2015
    Leader Revolution Pan and SS Pre-Heater 2016
    H20 Innovations Air Injection 2019
    CDL AirTech Pump Hi Vacuum 2019
    06' Gator HPX to collect wood & sap
    14' Ski-Doo Tundra for winter work in the woods
    Great Family 3 grown kids+spouses and 7 grand kids who like the woods
    7th Gen Canadian - Raised in Chardon Ohio - Maple Capital of the World...

  2. #2
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    Oct 2006
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    Garrettsville,Ohio
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    Default

    Speaking of agitating....

    Several producers have done this for the last 2 years. At this point they have almost figured out what works and what doesnt. At this years annual meeting cdl dealers had enough feed back through experiments with their set ups to create a commercial outfit to make it work well. They turned sour and buddy sap into a usable finished product. This will nearly eliminate the junk market when used properly
    Fred Ahrens
    330-206-1606
    Richards Maple Products
    Ohio CDL sales rep
    1500 taps

    dont take life too serious, nobody gets out alive anyways

  3. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fred View Post
    Speaking of agitating....

    Several producers have done this for the last 2 years. At this point they have almost figured out what works and what doesnt. At this years annual meeting cdl dealers had enough feed back through experiments with their set ups to create a commercial outfit to make it work well. They turned sour and buddy sap into a usable finished product. This will nearly eliminate the junk market when used properly
    Nothing's more fun than agitating. Did I ever tell you how good my Leader Clear Press works??

    Here's the link to one of the Maple News articles:
    https://www.themaplenews.com/story/get-it-bubbling/258/
    John Allin

    14x18 Hemlock Timber Frame Sugar House 2009
    Leader 2x6 w/Patriot Raised Flue Pan 2009
    Leader Steam Hood 2014 - Clear Filter Press 2015
    Leader Revolution Pan and SS Pre-Heater 2016
    H20 Innovations Air Injection 2019
    CDL AirTech Pump Hi Vacuum 2019
    06' Gator HPX to collect wood & sap
    14' Ski-Doo Tundra for winter work in the woods
    Great Family 3 grown kids+spouses and 7 grand kids who like the woods
    7th Gen Canadian - Raised in Chardon Ohio - Maple Capital of the World...

  4. #4
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    Default

    This process (adding air to sap) works by reducing some of the off-flavor precursors and by allowing for the development of more strong flavors (by having more time elapse and/or by diluting and reboiling, similar to the metabolism off-flavor removal process). In the case of the VT sugarmaker (Bob White), they are very interested in developing a certain good flavor. In the case of the Cornell work and much of the work in Quebec, they are more interested in reducing/removing buddy (or sour) off-flavor. In both cases, there is a great deal more to learn, but progress is being made.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  5. #5
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    Default

    I may pipe my air injection system into my sap tank.
    I’d think a few minutes of that should add lots of oxygen.
    It’s charcoal filtered air, so should not introduce any off flavor.
    John Allin

    14x18 Hemlock Timber Frame Sugar House 2009
    Leader 2x6 w/Patriot Raised Flue Pan 2009
    Leader Steam Hood 2014 - Clear Filter Press 2015
    Leader Revolution Pan and SS Pre-Heater 2016
    H20 Innovations Air Injection 2019
    CDL AirTech Pump Hi Vacuum 2019
    06' Gator HPX to collect wood & sap
    14' Ski-Doo Tundra for winter work in the woods
    Great Family 3 grown kids+spouses and 7 grand kids who like the woods
    7th Gen Canadian - Raised in Chardon Ohio - Maple Capital of the World...

  6. #6
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    Mar 2017
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    Granville, PA
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    Default

    If I am recalling what I have read correctly, if you introduce air into the sap while the sap is cooking it may and usually does lighten the color and subsequent taste of the finished syrup but if you are to introduce that same air into the sap before it is processed it will both darken and embolden the flavor of the finished syrup.

    So does that mean that at the end of the season one could in theory introduce air for the purpose of reducing off flavor and inadvertently darken the finished product but introduce air in the evaporator while cooking the sap and lighten it back with a more delicate flavor?
    Matt,
    Minehart Gap Maple

  7. #7
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    Lake County Ohio
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    Default

    Matt
    I got the same impression. We definitely made lighter syrup this year with air injection but I think our taste wasn’t the same. It would seem that one may cancel the other?
    John Allin

    14x18 Hemlock Timber Frame Sugar House 2009
    Leader 2x6 w/Patriot Raised Flue Pan 2009
    Leader Steam Hood 2014 - Clear Filter Press 2015
    Leader Revolution Pan and SS Pre-Heater 2016
    H20 Innovations Air Injection 2019
    CDL AirTech Pump Hi Vacuum 2019
    06' Gator HPX to collect wood & sap
    14' Ski-Doo Tundra for winter work in the woods
    Great Family 3 grown kids+spouses and 7 grand kids who like the woods
    7th Gen Canadian - Raised in Chardon Ohio - Maple Capital of the World...

  8. #8
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    Mar 2017
    Location
    Granville, PA
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    Default

    John, would you mind further explaining the taste comment. I was under the impression that the taste was the same taste that you would expect from the color of the syrup that was created.

    I am considering building and installing one (in the evaporator) for next spring but don't like the idea of changes to the taste.
    Matt,
    Minehart Gap Maple

  9. #9
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    Feb 2012
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    Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
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    891

    Default

    One thing to watch would be increasing the temperature of your sap. The temperature of compressed air is usually increased going through the air compressor. This could be why it darkens the syrup.
    Smoky Lake 2x6 dropflu pans and hoods on homemade arch
    Smoky Lake 6 gallon water jacked bottler
    Concentric Exhaust
    250 Deer Run RO
    325 taps

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Essex VT
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    Default

    I was at Bob White's sugar house on the Vermont Maplerama tour where he was demonstrating him sap agitating system. He was using a SS Goulds water pump to recirculate the water (sap) through 2" PVC pipe with a series of 1/8 holes drilled in it. If I recall it correctly, I think that Bob talked about recirculating the sap for 12 hours. What I do remember is that he said DO NOT USE A COMPRESSOR WITH ANY OIL IN IT.

    Joe
    2004- 470 taps on gravity and buckets
    2006- 590 taps on gravity and buckets 300 gph RO
    2009- 845 taps on vacuum no buckets, 600 gph RO
    2010- 925 taps on vacuum new 2 stage vacuum pump
    2014- 3045 taps on vacuum, new 1200 gph RO
    2015- 3104 taps on vacuum
    2017- 3213 taps on vacuum
    3' x 10' oil fired evaporator with steamaway

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