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Thread: Numbers from USDA including breakdown of most states

  1. #11
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    I don't recall how many years ago I got my first NASS report to file, but it was over 10 years ago, maybe even 15 yrs. I sent back the report each time, this year I did not get one to file.
    Another point, in the past I've encouraged every producer to file their report, it seems a majority refused because they were afraid the info would come back to bite them (my feeling is they didn't report the sales)
    This type of information is hard to get farmers to report because they don't trust the laws that force the info to just be used for statistics. For this reason I question how accurate any of this info can be, how can those who compile the info collected and "correct" it to get a final report.
    Dave Klish about 1320 taps in '15, doing fewer each year, about 450 planned for 2020 (and after?)
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  2. #12
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    Oh the infamous 9 words that will strike fear in the hearts of men...

    "We're from the government and we're here to help."

    I am often asked to fill out government survey's and labor reports....they get filed in the round file next to my chair.

    Wonder why the NASS report can't be anonymous, with county and state only. (maybe it is?)
    John Allin

    14x18 Hemlock Timber Frame Sugar House 2009
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    7th Gen Canadian - Raised in Chardon Ohio - Maple Capital of the World...

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnallin View Post
    Oh the infamous 9 words that will strike fear in the hearts of men...

    "We're from the government and we're here to help."
    Yup...people are afraid of this right up until the time they NEED help, and then they find they can't get it, because, technically, you don't exist (because you haven't reported).

    An example of the connection between reporting and $. This doesn't involve NASS, but same idea.

    Back in the Jan 1998 ice storm a huge number of maple producers were affected across a wide swath of the northeast (Quebec and Ontario were very badly hit). The Vermont Dept of Forests, Parks & Recreation did an absolutely wonderful detailed map of damage, with stand maps and classes of damage delineated very precisely across the entire state. Other surrounding states....not so much. They basically just took a wide marker and colored in half the state, a good deal of that was "scattered" or "light". https://www.fs.fed.us/nrs/pubs/jrnl/...-weeks_001.pdf

    So we're thinking...great, at least in VT we have really good and useful info. We thought that right up until it came time to dole out the $ for research and damage clean-up. The U.S. Federal Government divvied up the money by acreage affected. So our great detailed VT damage map totaled a fairly small area compared to surrounding states, and we got less research and recover $ because of it. It would have been better in some ways if they'd used a wide-tip marker or crayon.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins View Post
    Yup...people are afraid of this right up until the time they NEED help, and then they find they can't get it, because, technically, you don't exist (because you haven't reported).

    An example of the connection between reporting and $. This doesn't involve NASS, but same idea.

    Back in the Jan 1998 ice storm a huge number of maple producers were affected across a wide swath of the northeast (Quebec and Ontario were very badly hit). The Vermont Dept of Forests, Parks & Recreation did an absolutely wonderful detailed map of damage, with stand maps and classes of damage delineated very precisely across the entire state. Other surrounding states....not so much. They basically just took a wide marker and colored in half the state, a good deal of that was "scattered" or "light". https://www.fs.fed.us/nrs/pubs/jrnl/...-weeks_001.pdf

    So we're thinking...great, at least in VT we have really good and useful info. We thought that right up until it came time to dole out the $ for research and damage clean-up. The U.S. Federal Government divvied up the money by acreage affected. So our great detailed VT damage map totaled a fairly small area compared to surrounding states, and we got less research and recover $ because of it. It would have been better in some ways if they'd used a wide-tip marker or crayon.
    That's a great example of how poorly the Federal Government qualifies the information it receives at times.

    Although he doesn't like Leader Clear Presses I can see Fred's frustration....
    John Allin

    14x18 Hemlock Timber Frame Sugar House 2009
    Leader 2x6 w/Patriot Raised Flue Pan 2009
    Leader Steam Hood 2014 - Clear Filter Press 2015
    Leader Revolution Pan and SS Pre-Heater 2016
    H20 Innovations Air Injection 2019
    CDL AirTech Pump Hi Vacuum 2019
    06' Gator HPX to collect wood & sap
    14' Ski-Doo Tundra for winter work in the woods
    Great Family 3 grown kids+spouses and 7 grand kids who like the woods
    7th Gen Canadian - Raised in Chardon Ohio - Maple Capital of the World...

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnallin View Post
    Although he doesn't like Leader Clear Presses I can see Fred's frustration....
    I think we're all a bit frustrated by it, however it is the best we have (even knowing there are some problems with it). It will require a little more effort and cooperation from producers for it to improve.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  6. #16
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    In part due to the ohio nass elimination, osu is putting together a survey distributed to all 88 counties. It will be anonymous,independent and detailed. It will include timber, forest, maple and other(mushroom and root) income. I think this is a huge step towards accuracy and statewide help to the producer/landowner. They have also stepped back into the research and developement of natural resources big time in conjuction with the other nationally known entities
    Fred Ahrens
    330-206-1606
    Richards Maple Products
    Ohio CDL sales rep
    1500 taps

    dont take life too serious, nobody gets out alive anyways

  7. #17
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    As a retired Government employee from a Natural resource field I can tell you two things were almost always true......you were never trusted and seldom believed. This was due mainly to what people experience from politicians who most often are working to get reelected and to push their own agenda. There are some who genuinely want to serve the people, but they get fewer all the time. Special interest throw so much money into campaign funds they dictate much of what is addressed by legislation. One way to beat the system is to work it from inside. The NRA is a glowing example.....why do you think you still have a firearm in your house and are free to use it? Because, the NRA saw a long time ago how the game was played and entrenched themselves in Washington. Many politicians now know their paychecks can be torn from their hands by one bad endorsement from the NRA. Sad to say we are loosing this battle too, because Americans choose to withdraw instead of engage. When I worked for a state agency we genuinely wanted to help our constituents, but people often wanted only their own agendas addressed....we addressed what was good for the whole and not the individual. The people taking the surveys are not big brother, they are agency personnel trying to manage a resource and help. They are people just like you and I. If you are worried they will tell the IRS then it's your problem for not reporting income. Oh by the way, they don't trust the IRS either. I report everything including my income and I complete the surveys. If big brother wants you he'll find you from your cell phone not a maple survey.
    100 -110 taps
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    Southern Ohio

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye gold View Post
    There are some who genuinely want to serve the people, ...
    In my experience, this is true of all the USDA NASS folks I've worked with over the past couple of decades. They will generally come to maple meetings if asked, and explain what they do and their methods, interpret the results, and will answer any questions you have. We've been extremely fortunate to have some very fine USDA NASS folks in the northeast office. I would imagine it is very frustrating for them (in my opinion) that many in the maple industry do not like to submit their data, but then complain the data is not reflective of the real situation.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

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