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Thread: Rework AOF system on old King Evaporator

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Oneida NY
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    I also piped using PVC but I need to make a better cover for the noise, I can still hear the drone of the blower, low volume but never ending. My cover is just a plywood box with the side away from the sugarhouse open. I've thought of making one using 2" thick foam, have not yet.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  2. #12
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    May 2011
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    Chatham NH
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    My Blower is up stairs in the back of my sugarhouse, you only hear it if you go out to the tank room, it is plumed with 4" PVC and goes down the wall under the slab and comes up under the evaporator. It took alot of planning but i too didn't like listening to the blowers.
    Nate Hutchins
    Nate & Kate's Maple
    2022 1000 taps?
    3x10 Intensofire
    20x36 sugarhouse
    CDL 600gph RO
    A wife and 2 kids.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Albion PA
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    Folks,
    Thanks for checking in on me. Since I have most of the pieces in place this is just a upgrade to hopefully solve several of the issues with my second prototype AOF system. I do have the blower mounted outside the sugarhouse and I can hear the air. Since I have a similar blower for the steam away I have double the sounds! But we boil really well for a old rig. Around 120-130 gallons per hour.
    I don't really notice the noise until I shut down at the end of a boil and all is quiet again.

    Here you can get a idea of how the heat distorted the stainless tubes. I did have them fastened to the rails and it just popped the bolts.


    Here I have the steamaway removed and rolled forward and the rear pan removed and off to the side of the arch. Not a lot of room to work. May have to get some help and move them out of the evaporator room?


    Started to cut the current AOF system apart but got sidelined on another project (Tractor restoration). I have a plan and it will follow most of the guidlines that Dave (mapleflats) refered to in the article he linked. Bottom line is that with some cutting and fitting the AOF should work even better the third time!
    Regards,
    Chris
    Last edited by Sugarmaker; 04-12-2019 at 08:31 AM.
    Casbohm Maple and Honey
    625 roadside taps + Neighbors bring some sap too!
    3x10 King, WRU, AOF and AUF
    12" SIRO Filter Press.
    2015 Ford F250 PSD sap hauler
    One Golden named Maggie, Norwegian Forest Cat named Lucy
    Too many Cub Cadets
    Ford Jubilee and several Allis WD's, and IH tractors
    1932 Ford AAB ton and a half, dump truck

    www.mapleandhoney.com

  4. #14
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    Jan 2006
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    Oneida NY
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    Chris, how much space do you have on your nipples, they look rather close to each other? 6" space does well. If you set that tube down 6" after removing the fire brick, then put brick on top and use refractory to protect the tube, I don't think expansion will be an issue. Mine is like that and it has not shown evidence of expanding in length in several years use. Where do you have your HP blower, is it pushing cold air, mine pumps from under the head tank platform outside so it is pushing cooler air, that may help too. Cold air will not cool the fire in my experience and I think the colder air blowing thru the tubing controls the expansion.
    If you prefer, you could also mount the manifold on the outside of the arch. That option is mentioned in the report I referenced at the top of this thread.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Albion PA
    Posts
    5,099

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    Dave, Folks,
    I havent measured the nozzel spacing today but I think its about 6 inches. 5 foot of length on the front pan (old school).
    My blower is out side under the eaves on the East side of the sugarhouse. Yes I think expansion will not be as much of a problem. Not only did the current AOF tube grow in length but it also curved up and lifted off the front of the arch. Not a great thing either!

    Started the cuts on the tubing. Got side tracked again. The front section is not straight any more where the nozzles are. The back 5 feet is still straight. I have to evaluate if it will be better to use one or the other? Might just be able to cut some relief custs and straighten the bend and reweld it?

    Front cross tube will be cut short and the ends capped, to allow controlled air on either side if needed.


    Regards,
    Chris
    Casbohm Maple and Honey
    625 roadside taps + Neighbors bring some sap too!
    3x10 King, WRU, AOF and AUF
    12" SIRO Filter Press.
    2015 Ford F250 PSD sap hauler
    One Golden named Maggie, Norwegian Forest Cat named Lucy
    Too many Cub Cadets
    Ford Jubilee and several Allis WD's, and IH tractors
    1932 Ford AAB ton and a half, dump truck

    www.mapleandhoney.com

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Millmont,Pa
    Posts
    563

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    Chris: I have reworked my old soule 30x8 in the way you are about 3 years ago.
    Presently going to be out of the country until next weekend. But do have pictures I could send you
    115 red maples on vacuum
    100 taps on 5/16 gravity
    35 taps on 3/16 gravity
    50 taps on shurflo vacuum
    about 60 buckets on giant roadside sugars
    neighbor bringing from 45 taps
    30'x 8' Aof/Auf Evaporator
    Homemade 125gph Ro
    Lots of Homemade Equipment!

    http://s848.photobucket.com/albums/a...%20Sugarshack/

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    River Falls, WI
    Posts
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    That's pretty amazing that you're doing 130gph through a 3x10 with only a 5' flue pan! Obviously the steamaway is part of the equation, but still I'm impressed!
    -Ryan


    Went off the deep end. Might be in over my head...

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Peoria, IL
    Posts
    634

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sugarmaker View Post
    Dave, Folks,
    I havent measured the nozzel spacing today but I think its about 6 inches. 5 foot of length on the front pan (old school).
    My blower is out side under the eaves on the East side of the sugarhouse. Yes I think expansion will not be as much of a problem. Not only did the current AOF tube grow in length but it also curved up and lifted off the front of the arch. Not a great thing either!

    Started the cuts on the tubing. Got side tracked again. The front section is not straight any more where the nozzles are. The back 5 feet is still straight. I have to evaluate if it will be better to use one or the other? Might just be able to cut some relief custs and straighten the bend and reweld it?

    Front cross tube will be cut short and the ends capped, to allow controlled air on either side if needed.

    Regards,
    Chris
    My answer would depend on how much variance there is in the tubing. Less than 1/4 inch? I would leave it. If you are going with the Proctor guidelines and setting the tubing down from the pan 4-6" then you can probably leave the tubing as is and put mortar/insulation around it to protect it. I used ceramic insulation around my tubing and that worked well.
    Camp Wokanda
    Peoria Park District

    2023 - 210 on 3/16 shurflo, sap storage shack w/ 1100 gallon tank - 123 gallons
    2022 - 210 on 3/16 shurflo, homemade vac filter & water jacket canner - 104 gallons
    2021 - 215 on 3/16 shurflo, added 2nd membrane to RO - 78 gallons
    2020 - 210 on 3/16 shurflo, upgraded hp pump on RO - 66 gallons
    2019 - 150 on 3/16 shurflo, Deer Run 125 dolly RO - 73 gallons
    2018 - 120 on 3/16 shurflo, 2x6 raised flue w/hood, homemade arch w/ AUF & AOF - 34.5 gallons

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Eden Prairie, MN
    Posts
    1,636

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    If it's of interest I can share an Excel spreadsheet that will help in sizing AOF systems. Based on number and size of the nozzles and the outlet pressure of your AOF blower, it calculates the exit velocity of the air jets and total CFM of AOF. Of course, you need to know what you want those numbers to be, but I find it interesting to know the effect when I make a change to my system.
    John
    2x8 Smokylake drop flue with AOF/ AUF
    180 taps on sacks
    75 on 3/16 tubing with shurflo
    Eden Prairie, Minnesota

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Albion PA
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    Thanks guys,
    I am not going to get too technical as far as the numbers. The old system on the top of the rail worked pretty well as a protptype. (read that: I was lazy and did not want to tear out the fire birck)
    I have the old system cut into pieces and have mocked it up. Pulled the top course of fire brick out.

    You know when you change one thing 5 other things need changed too? Well you can take that to the bank!

    1. Thinking of adding arch board between brick and skin? Never had any just brick. Now would be the time. (hum might make a colder sugarhouse? But might boil a little better/ hotter??
    2. Rear pan flues (9 inch deep) now hit some splits I had laid under the side wall fire bricks at the back of the arch.
    3. that means removing all the bricks and redoing them. Well it has not been touched for almost 20 years, so maybe its time?
    4. the top rail is bowed out about 1 wider at the center of the 10 foot arch. Might as well fix that while its all apart.
    5. new drain hole required for the flue pan, 2 inches lower.

    See told you!

    Top rail AOF cut into sections:


    First rough mock up: Well thats not going to work with the air tube going through the door opening!


    Yea its getting messy and dirty!
    This is the left side of the arch with the front (door air tube) raised above the side tube.


    Have the holes cut in the sides of the arch and the input air tubes (round) trail fit. Looks like the rig has headers! Ok one header!

    Regards,
    Chris
    Casbohm Maple and Honey
    625 roadside taps + Neighbors bring some sap too!
    3x10 King, WRU, AOF and AUF
    12" SIRO Filter Press.
    2015 Ford F250 PSD sap hauler
    One Golden named Maggie, Norwegian Forest Cat named Lucy
    Too many Cub Cadets
    Ford Jubilee and several Allis WD's, and IH tractors
    1932 Ford AAB ton and a half, dump truck

    www.mapleandhoney.com

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