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Thread: Cleaning 3/16ths lines after the season

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins View Post
    Using IPA is allowed under Canadian law. It is not allowed under US law. By your logic, anyone driving a BMW should be allowed to drive on the left side of the road in the US.

    We also use bandaids on our cuts. Doesn’t mean we want them in our syrup.

    You may argue about it all you like, but using IPA in the US is currently illegal. Give it a try and find out how far any of those arguments get you with the EPA. Best of luck. If you are that confident about it, call the Ohio Dept of Ag and Ohio Dept of Health and argue with them. I bet you will lose.
    I'd prefer not to argue - my question was- how is syrup, made in another country, that could have been produced with equipment sanitized with IPA, allowed to be sold the States, when syrup produced domestically can be confiscated?

    It goes no further than that...neither of us will fix it; it's the law, but it's certainly worthy of discussion - there's no need to argue at all.

    For what it's worth.... the Germans drive on the same side of the road (right) as we do in the States and you're correct band aids don't belong in syrup.
    John Allin

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  2. #22
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    I think perhaps the thread needs to return to the original topic and not digress into an argument over legalities. I think that the question of why Canadian syrup passes for sale in the US is a valid question. Is it tested for residuals? But that maybe should be another thread. Is it possible there are some personal issues involved here?

    I know this may get me in trouble questioning a Mod, but I feel it needed said. Let's all get along and be helpful.

    I have a lot of experience with the EPA, FDA and Dept of Ag (both US and OH). Illegal is illegal and there are no exceptions or considerations, you will get hammered. The processes to register products take years of testing and proving and then someone has to be willing to foot the bill and sponsor the label. If the profit potential is not there it will not happen. I held INAD (investigational New Animal Drug) permits for years. I know of cases where people went to jail for misuse. I think this is part of Dr. Tim's point. Let's all move on with what we can do to clean our lines legally. The other questions can move to another thread.
    125-150 taps
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  3. #23
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    Well said Buckeye. Now back to our regular programing......
    John Allin

    14x18 Hemlock Timber Frame Sugar House 2009
    Leader 2x6 w/Patriot Raised Flue Pan 2009
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    Leader Revolution Pan and SS Pre-Heater 2016
    CDL Hobby RO & Air Tech L25 Hi Vac Pump 2019
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    14' Ski-Doo Tundra for winter work in the woods
    Great Family 3 grown kids+spouses and 7 grand kids who like the woods
    7th Gen Born in Canada - Raised in Chardon Ohio - Maple Capital of the World..<grin>.

  4. #24
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    I guess if we have certain standards to live by, why do we import stuff that doesn't meet those same standards? Wouldn't that designate a warning label? [/QUOTE]

    This should be in another thread but I cant help myself, this is the question and the root of all of our problems in this great country we live in. Most not all other countries that we trade with are not required and or responsible enough to operate with the same rules and regulations weather it concerns the health of the people doing the work or our planet, nor the health of the end user of said products. And that is why we cannot compete for manufacturing.
    Nate Hutchins
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wnybassman View Post
    If the US is concerned about anything harmful from IPA being in the end product, but that same something harmful may end up in the Canadian end product, why is their end product allowed here in the states?
    I doubt the EPA is concerned. The issue is that nobody has spent the time or money to register the product so it can be used. I’m not saying it’s harmful. I’m saying it is currently considered an unregistered pesticide.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
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  6. #26
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    Dr. Tim with IPA being the desired sanatizer by some, would a different (but registered) pesticide produce the same result?

    I should clarify, I believe that my sanatarian is telling me that I must clean and sanatize my lines every year. I use white vinegar to clean and (I haven't done this yet) I will run sanatizer in my lines before tapping. Will this give me a beneficial result?
    Last edited by minehart gap; 01-07-2019 at 10:29 AM.
    Matt,
    Minehart Gap Maple

  7. #27
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    I have a very small operation here in Missouri (USA). I have 40 or so trees I tap with 5/16th tubing. I boil the taps and drop lines in plain water and reuse each year. I have been tapping for 7 years. I did notice last year that my production was way down. I also had one of my prize producing trees that was in the prime of its life suddenly die this past summer. I plan on boiling the taps and drops again this year. What I am seeing here is that possibly I should replace the taps and drop lines. If I have another poor production year I just may replace like is suggested here. Imagine that learning from the experts.
    Crazy River Sap
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  8. #28
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    Boiling SS taps works somewhat well, plastic not so much. The micro-organisms penetrate the tubing wall. Boiling does kill on the surface and help remove some of the debris, but it will not kill in the tubing wall. Also, various approved cleaning agents do not kill what penetrated the tubing wall. It does help keep the tubing micro organisms a little in check.
    The most important part is to usa a new tap every year if they are not SS, second comes the drop line and tee, those should be changed every 3 or 4 years (3 is best), the lateral line should just be flushed after the season, then let dry.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
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  9. #29
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    Has there been any studies on using quantinary ammonia or paracedic acid? They are common sanitizers in food, we hate them at the treatment plant due to they are extremely effective and don't break down easily.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by maple flats View Post
    The most important part is to usa a new tap every year if they are not SS, second comes the drop line and tee, those should be changed every 3 or 4 years (3 is best), the lateral line should just be flushed after the season, then let dry.
    This is the practice I have been using, but what is in the video is very different. Art shares that he is trying out these new practices based on information he got from Steve Childs at Cornell - that a bleach cleaning resulted in drops being "just as good as brand new drops." (Right around the 4:00 mark) That's what got my attention first. Then in the video Art gives his (drops - spouts and all) a soak in a PVC tube.

    I'm a small operation and I take all of my lines down every year - so squirrel damage is not as big an issue. If this ends up being true, it could save me some time, money, and waste.
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