Sucking sap uphill

[n8hutch]

I definitely Get that for your setup Dave, but what John Allin is talking about I would just be afraid that I was giving up a fair amount of sap.

For instance I lift some 5/16 laterals up to my main line ones 5' one is 8' , the 5' ladder is 2 - 3/16, and the 8' is 3-3/16 , the sap races up the 3/16 laterals in 1/2 long columns and I have 22" of vac at the end of my 5/16 lateral. I would just be concerned that if you had 3/16 lines running down hill with 40' of drop and then you turned them after the last tap and ran them up hill to a pump and manifold that there would be significant line friction even with a pump, on my 3/16 lines with vac on them the sap is still moving relatively slow and they run right down to the main and the main has 24" on it.

[johnallin]

Thanks for the input Nate. I can eleiminate about 20’ of the secondary rise if I don’t go to the creek crossing. That would give me 20’ drop and the just about level to the shack. Would that be better? Would 5/16 be a better choice for the final 100’ or so after the 3/16?

[maple flats]

I fully agree, but my choice is to get what I can at the lowest per tap cost. I'm sure I lose some potential but when I watch the sap flowing down that last drop after climbing and crossing the driveway it is moving along at a pace not much slower than what my lines with 25 taps and 30'+ drop at my lease get while feeding into a mainline that has 19" vacuum on it. This year I'm doing that woods differently. Rather than use the vacuum tank as such, I'm adding a releaser and hopefully 4-5 more inches of vacuum. That should increase the sap yield. On the other hand, with my cancer issue last year I tapped far fewer taps and got 119 gal off 225 taps, That's still .53 gal/tap and in the 225 tap count I had 75 taps pulling sap up to the mainline. I think that was remarkable. That was my best yield/tap ever, my previous best was .45 gal/tap.

[n8hutch]

John , If you can run a level mainline, or even 1% out to your taps and maintain 20' of drop that would be your best bet, I would just run a 1" main out there and pick up your 3/16 lines with that. With as little as 20" vac on that main line you would get all your going to get at your elevation vas wise out of your 3/16 lines. You definitely want to run 3/16 all the way to the main. I understand people don't want to run main lines and I get it they are alot of work, but to me they are cheaper to run long term because your not replacing them as often. On 100 taps , if you gain 10% that's probably 4-5 gallons of syrup, that will pay year after year.

You can still pull the taps below your mainline up to the main and you get what you get out of that as a bonus if you will ,but your getting the max out of the stuff above the main no question.

[n8hutch]

Dave I am not arguing against what you have done, I'm sure it was the best option for you and cost per tap definitely comes into the equation. But what John was talking about doing, sucking sap up hill through 7, 3/16 lines up 20' at a distance of 110' is not the same as what you are doing, I am just giving him some ideas from a different point of view. Everybody should do what's best for them.

[johnallin]

In my case the main line would only be about 100-110'. Presently all of the 3/16 lines terminate at the same spot. Is there any advantage to a shorter main line vs. using longer 3/16 lines? Most of my 3/16 runs are less than 300' with 20-25 taps ea. They ran fine into the collection barrel last year.

I'm trying to eliminate two things this year-
1) pushing sap up to the shack with the Honda WX10 pump. I will replace with a vac pump to eliminate sap contact with the aluminum pump housing
2) the vertical 165 gal tank which was a pain to get to and to keep clean. I will replace with a SS tank right at the sugar house.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread and hope this is also helpful to Windy Acres question regarding pulling sap uphill.

[n8hutch]

The Advantage of a mainline is you can run it at a 1% slope or less even depending on the size., 3/16 tubing was never designed to be run at such shallow/nearly level slopes and it has been proven that it is counter productive because of friction loss in the line. I'm going on my 5th season of using some 3/16 I dont use it exclusively for the reason that it's not made for areas where you dont have sufficient drop.

My very first year on 3/16 I tried it on some 3% ground and it ran great, the second year I got almost half the yield of the first, it seems that it's a bigger issue the second season because your system is not as clean as the first.

So on a flat run with 3/16 you risk loss of vacuum due to line friction that increases as your tubing gets older.

If you run a mainline with vacuum on it you know at every point that your 3/16 tubing enters that 100+/- foot main that there is 20"hg or more depending upon your pump, pulling on that 3/16 tubing adding to the natural vacuum it has already created, with long flat runs of 3/16 you could potentially be losing vacuum do to line friction.

Hopefully I explained that well and its helpful. I'm not always real good with the words .at least that's what the Wife tells me.

[Windy Acres]

I agree with you n8hutch, I wish I could do a traditional mainline, there is just no way to put one in without having to suck half of the hedge uphill anyway, there will only be about 100 taps from that hedge, but I'm hoping to bring another hedge that I already currently tap to our side of the road through a culvert also

[johnallin]

Will a Guzzler pump pull vac on a 1" mainline? If so, it looks like it would make for a simple setup and dump right into the tank.
Windy Acres, is this what you are planning on?

[Windy Acres]

Johnallin, no I cant do a mainline with this setup, I'll be doing individual 3/16 runs, pulling the sap uphill