Cdl zap bac

[BAP]

Snowmad, are you using the clear or black CV spouts? Also, at the end of the season, the CV spouts need to be taken off to allow the line to drain out.

[maple flats]

I actually use the Zap Bac on new drops too, even though it is no necessary. Since last year was my first on them, those are now on year 2. I still had maybe 150 CV2 taps that also got used. All I bought this year are the Zap Bac. I got them based solely on a visit I made to see Mountainvan's operation and his experience with them. Last year I used half CV2 and half Zap Bac.

[spud]

What was Mountainvans experience with them? Why not share the three year numbers? Nobody will get good production numbers by using these spouts for three seasons. I bet those using the silver spouts are not coming close to the production numbers that PMRC is getting. There is NO real research on these spouts. A wire brush through any spout mid season will help production.

Spud

[DrTimPerkins]

I actually use the Zap Bac on new drops too, even though it is no necessary.

On a new system (completely new tubing or new drop/spout) there is no real need to use any additional sanitation beyond a new spout. That goes for either a CV or a Zap-Bac. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that it is counter-indicated to use a Zap-Bac on a new system, since you'll use up some of the pool of available silver the first year when you don't really need it. Better to go with a new drop (tee, tubing) with a new standard spout and then put either a CV or a Zap-Bac on the second and subsequent years.

There have been numerous research studies by UVM, Cornell, and Centre Acer on the CV showing the benefits in terms of improved sap yields and net profit. There has been very little on the Zap-Bac. What has been done shows the Zap-Bac falls somewhere between using a new spout (regular, non-CV, non-silver) and either bleach-cleaning (with long-contact time) or using the CV spout/adapter system in terms of net economic profit. What work has been done on the Zap-Bac seems to indicate that it works reasonably well the first year, with the effect dropping off over the next two years (suggested lifespan by the manufacturer of 3 yrs). Running a wire brush on a drill through them probably helps (by exposing more fresh surface) quite a lot, however that is costly in terms of time/effort required, so it impacts the net profitability considerably.

[Snowmad]

Snowmad, are you using the clear or black CV spouts? Also, at the end of the season, the CV spouts need to be taken off to allow the line to drain out.

I used clear. On one 30 tap line I ran the stubby spouts with the clear CV. I can see taking the CV off in that situation I guess to allow them to drain, but to take a regular CV off would leave the end of each drop open all summer, unless you suggest putting the new spout on in the spring when you plug them up for the summer.

[Walling's Maple Syrup]

I used clear. On one 30 tap line I ran the stubby spouts with the clear CV. I can see taking the CV off in that situation I guess to allow them to drain, but to take a regular CV off would leave the end of each drop open all summer, unless you suggest putting the new spout on in the spring when you plug them up for the summer.

I cut them off when pulling them at the end of each season. I Use a post t. I let them hang for a few weeks to dry then plug tubing onto t.
Neil

[n8hutch]

I personally think that the most important thing when it comes to taps is syrup production. Plugged up spouts or spouts broken off in trees or bells that dont seem to move at the end of the season are pretty insignificant things. What's important to me is sap/syrup produced per dollar spent. Until I see something very convincing in writing I'm going to stick with CV2s , I think its important to note that I use alot ot CDL stuff, Almost all my tubing is CDL. I guess I'm young enough that I would think that I will see the Patent expire and we'll see how many companies start selling some type of CV, then the proof will be in the pudding as they say.

[Snowmad]

I cut them off when pulling them at the end of each season. I Use a post t. I let them hang for a few weeks to dry then plug tubing onto t.
Neil

That seems like a good way to do it. Unfortunately with my cup style T's I can't do that. I know you guys like them, I'm still on the fence giving them another try this year but trying the Zap Bacs too. What a great time to be in the maple business, there are so many changes and ideas that are available. I should say that ANY tubing system beats the ****ed old buckets!

[minehart gap]

Because we are comparing CV spouts with ZB spouts and the financial issue had been mentioned, I am not sure how an argument can be made that the CV spouts are more economical as Dr. Tim had claimed. The CV spouts are roughly $0.40 plus labor to replace the spout per year but you keep the drop line whereas the ZB is around $0.42 per tap once every three years with no yearly replacement labor and no new dropline. Please let me know what I am missing.

I currently use CV spouts with mixed results. I tapped on February 3rd and have had several CV spiles become "plugged" by it's own ball. On the other hand, I have purchased a bag of ZB spiles but have not used them yet as all of my drop lines (except CV laterals) were replaced this year and I decided to install the ZB spiles on year old drop lines.

[n8hutch]

Because we are comparing CV spouts with ZB spouts and the financial issue had been mentioned, I am not sure how an argument can be made that the CV spouts are more economical as Dr. Tim had claimed. The CV spouts are roughly $0.40 plus labor to replace the spout per year but you keep the drop line whereas the ZB is around $0.42 per tap once every three years with no yearly replacement labor and no new dropline. Please let me know what I am missing.

Your missing a Detailed Study with all variables covered, you have nothing that says what the production is of a Zap Bac spout in year 3, sure you save 40 cents on the tap but if you lose out on 4 dollars worth of sap how much have you saved?

We know Check valves work, we have study's, we have people in the field making .5 gallons of syrup per tap, or better, consistently, year after year.

The Zap Bac might be better than a CV in the end who knows, but I haven't seen anything as of right now that would convince me of that.

Before these Zap Bac spouts came out CDL was pushing there white spouts pretty hard, I don't hear much about those now, I have 4 bags of them, they are a fine spout. I'll use them up on new drops.