Thinning Sugarbush with Beech blight and Beech bark disease?

[L&msugarbush]

In Michigan we just recently got the beech blight and Beech bark disease in our area which is killing all our larger trees and I'm wondering what others are doing to deal with it?.. should I get rid of all the beech trees( beech saplings also) even though some of the beech mybe immune to the disease? I know a lot of guys would say get rid of them all but the problem is I only have 3 different species that make up my Sugarbush which are Ironwood, Beech and Maple (the ash borer has already killed all of my ash!)my research on here has said that a Woods with other species helps prevent diseases so that's why I'm wondering. If I take out all the beech and the only thing left other than maple is small Ironwood! Then I also have to worry about Sun scaled trees when i take out the 2 and 3 foot diameter beech tree's with the huge crowns that are dying anyhow! My woods is a old-growth woods with lots of tall maple but also about a 15 to 20% mix of the other mentioned species. When speaking to a Lapeer guy they recommended just cutting 3 feet around every maple tree and leave the rest (which is exactly what I've been doing!)Then when I spoke to a CDL representative they suggested I cut away all the Ironwood. And then again, when I spoke to a local large syrup producer he mentioned getting rid of everything but the maple tree. So I'm just confused on what to do. And just for a reference I would say most of the Ironwood and Beech trees are juveniles compared to the maples and are only about 10 to 20 feet tall at most and are growing inbetween the larger maple trees which are spaced roughly 15ft to 20ft apart unless there is a large beech tree in the area, then I would say 50/60 feet between maple trees! Which brings me to my next question .. if you do leave these other saplings growing in between the maple, how far apart do you thin them without letting in too much sunlight? Any advice or input is appreciated.

P.s
I have 98 Acres to thin so I want to make sure I do it right the first time. Thanks!

[minehart gap]

If it were my property, I would go to the Soil Conservative District and ask to be put in contact with the state forester for your area. While you are there, ask what private forestors they may recommend or discourage for use in a sugar bush. I doubt that a state forestor will commit to very much but they will give direction to who they feel could best help you and hopefully a name.

I know that it's a long way to get an answer but the decision that you make will last for several generations so it's probably worth the bother. And, you might as well at least get some knowledge from the government, get something back for your tax dollars.

[Sunday Rock Maple]

Start by removing the ones that suppress a viable maple.

[mol1jb]

A lot depends on how you want to manage your woods. Besides giving us great sweet sap our woods is also habitat for animals and insects alike. I think the advise of thinning around your maples is good advise. No reason I can see to clear cut everything but maples. You may also look into prescribed burning. It is a very cost effective and natural way to keep your woods from getting too thick with undergrowth.

[L&msugarbush]

Thank you all for your replys thus far( they are much appreciated!) and hopefully this thread continues! I'm sure that there are other people out there that have interest in This Thread as well and what to do about Beech blight/ Beech bark disease or maybe they've already dealt with it!(perhaps Dr. Tim could jump in on this discussion? ) One of my original questions was to get rid of all the beech or to keep some of the healthier looking 10' plus beech trees to keep a healthy diverse Forest? It's a fact all our bigger 24" pluss diameter beech trees are dying and there will be nothing left but seedlings. On the flip side having no Beech trees means no squirrels chewing on my lines for a while and the beech will come back from the roots or seeds eventually, but leaving the existing saplings may Bush out and krowd the Maple and other saplings trying to come up perhaps?..Just like the Ironwood that's growing 2' to 3' part and so thick in parts of my Sugarbush that I notice most of the small maple saplings died out due to not enough sunlight or just being overcrowded from them and that brings me back to one of my other questions about thinning the smaller trees in between the bigger maple and how far apart to thin them from each other? I know there's a need to keep the 10 to 15 foot tall trees to make the smaller saplings grow tall and straight but just not how much thinning to do between the juvenile trees .. what is too little or too much!?
Thanks!

[Ed R]

I have 120 acres in the UP that the logger will be starting on this winter. All the beach and ash 4 inches and up are slated to be cut. I have quite a few Basswood and birch which I am being selective on what goes and what stays along with the maples. The beach and ash are not long for this world, might as well use them If they are still good. They will be falling on your lines all the time if you don't. My ash are still good but eab is only 30 miles away, I have quite a few big beach that are not salvageable. All of the 4" or greater ironwood are also to be cut. Since there is not much of a pulp market in your area you will have to do most of any ironwood thinning yourself if you decide to thin them. I'm surprised there is that little diversity in your woods, our bush in mid mi has at least 10 or more tree species in it.

[L&msugarbush]

Thanks Ed, I'm located by Mackinaw City so we're close by! As far as the ash, I was warned by my dad that it was coming but I thought I had a little more time to take care of it. I just noticed it was starting to die last fall and most of what little I have is infested bad this year so I will be cutting it down and sawing it up on my saw mill for my Furniture Lumber. The 4-inch diameter and on up was one of the answer I was looking for and curious to what others were doing!.. And for the record I'm no stranger to logging in the woods as I grew up working for my father's Logging co. doing select cut for veneer and grade saw logs. but with all these diseases and bugs killing everything nowadays it's a hard gamble of what to take out and what to leave for the future, especially when creating a Sugarbush "which I'm not afraid to say I'm totally unfamiliar with and a newbie at sugaring!" I'm sure Sugarbush thinning is a whole different deal than what I used to do! I will say as far as Basswood right now, I hear it's at a very low price and better to hang on to it till the market goes back up if you can. I do have about 10 acres of roughly 30" +-Basswood on a different parcel that I'm keeping just because of that reason, and far as I know there's no bugs or disease after them yet. I do have a old friend of the family and recently retired Timber Cruiser coming to look at my situation but I'm still curious to hear what others have to say.

[Ed R]

L&m I thought that you were downstate further. There is a great pulp market opening with a new plant down in Grayling (arauco). I think I heard that they will take hardwood pulp down to 3 ".

[WestfordSugarworks]

L&M I would be happy to answer some of your questions over the phone. You can send me a private message if you're interested. I'm one semester away from graduating from the University of Vermont with a forestry degree and obviously am also a sugarmaker. A few things I can say are

1. Beech bark disease may not kill all affected trees immediately and can remain living for a number of years even when infected- so cutting it out immediately isn't important
2. Some trees may be resistant so i've always been told that it's recommended to retain any healthy looking beech
3. It's really important to leave non-maples in your forest and since you only have 3 species in your woods, it's even more important in your case. Who's to know when a maple-loving pest is going to come visit our forests?
4. Your time is worth money and it is worth considering how much time you would potentially spend cutting down low value wood vs how much time you would spend clearing the dead trees from your lines.

We anticipate the ash borer visiting our woods within the next 10 years and I plan to cut valuable ash where possible before the bug comes, but only for financial reasons. I will not be driving a tractor a mile up into the woods and spending hours taking down and putting back up tubing just to cut down a crooked tree and drag it out for firewood. I will only cut ash in anticipation of EAB if it will work out in my favor financially. Otherwise it is much cheaper to let the ash fall on your lines and just cut them off and fix the tubing after.

We also have beech bark disease in our woods and do absolutely nothing about it. No need to. Some trees are dying, some trees are dead, some appear to be healthy. We have very little beech in our woods but if we had more, or had dense pockets of beech that was infected, I guess I would consider cutting them down and opening up some light for other species to grow. Simply cutting down individual trees and leaving a relatively shaded area will lead to a huge growth of root suckers, which no sugarmaker wants.

Like I said, message me if you'd like to talk on the phone at some point. Also I would definitely recommend talking to someone knowledgeable from your state agency or better yet, a consulting forester.

[Kettle Ridge]

You can also do a Google search for articles by Peter Smallidge of Cornell Univ. who has written extensively about beech control. If I were cutting a lot of beech I would consider using small diameter bolts for shiitake mushroom cultivation.