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Thread: R/O Questions

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Middlesex Vermont
    Posts
    628

    Default R/O Questions

    I have questions about R/O's. I have a 2x4 Mason with a leader supreme pan and because I am always boiling when sap runs I have never seen a small R/O run. I have no heat in my sugar house so if I had a portable type R/o that I could wheel into sugarhouse can I run it if temps in sugar house where below freezing? ie 9 in morning 28 degrees. It appears my evaporator will evaporate about 18 gallons an hour. so the bucket ro's appear to be to small. Does anyone have experience with the units sold by Homestead Maple in Chazy Ny under the Next Generation Maple Products? I see people mentioning washing or flushing these units at end of day what is that all about? I have a wood floor so cant be flushing out inside shack.
    110 taps W.F Mason 2x3 and two turkey friers for finishing

    2011 expanding to a Mason 2x4 with a blower increasing taps to about 200
    2011 Hurricane Irene rips thru my small sugar bush cost me to lose 20% of taps
    2014 I have reworked my lines for 2014
    32 taps on 5/16 line with check valves
    57 taps on 3/16 line with check valves
    55 buckets with total tapped trees of 144

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Westhampton
    Posts
    10

    Default

    No problem below freezing while it's running, just need to wheel it somewhere above freezing when your all done. I built a RO on a dolly with an XLE-2540 membrane that I use with my 2x4 smokey lake hybrid and with recirculation I feed my evaporator perfectly while taking 1/2 the water out. To wash I do a quick warm wash with about 10 of warm permeate them run whatever permeate I made thru the RO. wood floors are not an issue as you just run your hose to wherever you want the water to do.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Alcona County, Michigan
    Posts
    1,134

    Default

    The sap temp has to stay above freezing or the RO will not work because the sap or permeate will stop flowing through it. ROs work better with sap warmer than 40F, but can work with lower efficiency when the sap is below that. At the end of the batch or whenever the efficiency drops low enough, the biologicals have to be removed from the membranes to prevent them from spoiling inside. This takes a caustic wash or at least a flush with permeate or well water. At some point, minerals will also get deposited in the membranes and they have to be dissolved with acid and flushed out. The caustic or acid solution needs to be neutralized when you're done with it, so flushing it out on your floor isn't a good idea.
    CE
    44° 41′ 3″ N

    2019 -- 44 Red Maples - My home and sugarbush are for sale.
    2018 -- 48 Red Maples, 7 gallons
    2017 -- 84 Red Maples, 1 Sugar Maple, and 1 Silver Maple , 13 gallons
    2016 -- 55 Red Maples, 8 gallons
    2015 -- 15 Red Maples, 6 Birches - 3+ gallons maple syrup
    An awning over my deck is my sugar shack.
    An electrified kitchen sink and an electrified steam table pan are my evaporators.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Middlesex Vermont
    Posts
    628

    Default

    I have another question how long can you hold concentrate before boiling? I ask this as it seems as I have read post over the last few days that some people are holding concentrate for a few days until they have enough to fire up.
    110 taps W.F Mason 2x3 and two turkey friers for finishing

    2011 expanding to a Mason 2x4 with a blower increasing taps to about 200
    2011 Hurricane Irene rips thru my small sugar bush cost me to lose 20% of taps
    2014 I have reworked my lines for 2014
    32 taps on 5/16 line with check valves
    57 taps on 3/16 line with check valves
    55 buckets with total tapped trees of 144

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    410

    Default

    You should boil concentrate as soon as possible to minimize the loss of sugar from bacteria. I have also read of people holding their concentrate for a day before boiling it, but I know they recommend not doing that.
    Gary
    16' X 24' Sugarhouse
    2' X 6' Leader Inferno Arch with Revolution Raised-Flue Pans, Smoky Lake preheater and hood
    Deer Run Maple gas-powered 250 RO
    WesFab 7" filter press
    Kubota 1100 RTV with tracks and 125 gallon tank for transporting sap
    600+ taps on gravity and vacuum
    Very supportive wife who is the best coworker
    http://mapletrader.com/community/sho...ing-Sugarhouse

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Alcona County, Michigan
    Posts
    1,134

    Default

    How long you can hold it without spoiling depends on how cold you can keep it. The closer to freezing that you get, the slower it will spoil. If you set it up to concentrate overnight, you should be boiling it that next morning unless you keep it close to frozen.
    CE
    44° 41′ 3″ N

    2019 -- 44 Red Maples - My home and sugarbush are for sale.
    2018 -- 48 Red Maples, 7 gallons
    2017 -- 84 Red Maples, 1 Sugar Maple, and 1 Silver Maple , 13 gallons
    2016 -- 55 Red Maples, 8 gallons
    2015 -- 15 Red Maples, 6 Birches - 3+ gallons maple syrup
    An awning over my deck is my sugar shack.
    An electrified kitchen sink and an electrified steam table pan are my evaporators.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    canton, ny
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Has anyone used NGMP's small RO unit code GEN-45stdro sold by h20 innovation, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on how it preforms.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Covington, New York
    Posts
    1,544

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dark mountain maple View Post
    Has anyone used NGMP's small RO unit code GEN-45stdro sold by h20 innovation, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on how it preforms.
    Mid way through the season last year I bought the next one bigger, the 100STDRO. I thought it performed very well, and averaged the 50 gph water removal it was rated for. I am slightly concerned about the longevity of the pump motor seeing there are no feeder pumps on these two units. I have nothing to base this concern on other than the fact that many other RO's have feeders. I bought from Next Gen directly, and talked with the owner for a while the day we picked it up, and he said they have sold lots of these RO's with nearly zero problems.
    Noel Good
    1998 to 2009: 15 taps on buckets, scavenged fire pit and pans
    2010: New 2x4 SS flat pan w/preheater
    2015: New to me Lapierre 18x60 raised flue, new shack, new everything!! 59 taps 23.75 gallons made
    2016: 85 taps 19 gallons
    2017: Purchased 2.5 acres and tubed half with 3/16. 145 taps total 49.25 gallons made
    2018: 200 taps (162 on 3/16ths 38 on buckets) New NextGen RO 63 gallons made
    2019: 210 taps 73.5 gallons made
    www.wnybass.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cape Girardeau, MO
    Posts
    115

    Default

    In Maple News ?????? Dr Tim ??? wrote about them going to hi Brix and using milk cooling tanks and turning cooling way down. Their hi Brix turned to shush at 22 or 23 degrees so they kept consecrate 1 degree above shush for over the weekend and were cooking Monday. I can't quote exacty as I don't have the article right in front of me. The higher the brix the cooler you have to keep it.
    2012 200 taps on buckets,,, Built me a 2' X 11' arch,,, hope to put most on tubing next year.

    2011 100 taps on buckets, 30x 60 flat pan

    2009 63 taps on buckets,,,, 30x60 flat pan

  10. #10
    Haynes Forest Products Guest

    Default

    I can speak from experience that the sooner you cook it the better your end product. Keeping it as cold as possible the better and yes at slush temperatures the bacterial activity will be way down. Now spending the money on equipment to keep sap cold would be better spent on a better RO that will surpass you evaporation capacity. Any time you stand the chance to spoil your concentrate you stand the chance of turning it ropey so be careful.

    Any well designed well made RO should have all the drains necessary to protect all the components by quick draining. If you go the small portable route then keep it covered in the sap shack and bring home and do the wash in your garage. A well placed light bulb and a moving blanket will keep most things warm for an extended period of time so think about that.

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