Couple questions on shurflo pumps

[Biz]

rhwells, I was thinking around 100 taps for next year, seems from what I'm reading I would need less taps on vacuum than i do on gravity to get a similar amount of sap.

SSS2017-those are some very encouraging numbers, do you think you'll ever need to install a mainline or do the 3/16 lines work well enough on their own.

BIZ, SSS2017, and CedarEater- As I said I have little to no change in elevation over the entire length of my property. My concern with the 3/16 is that if for some reason my vacuum is out, say while I'm at work, I will completely miss any possible gravity run. Also since the 3/16 is so forgiving can i just eyeball my slopes from tree to tree as I zigzag thru the woods or will i need some sort of level to determine slope. Thanks guys I really appreciate your help.
Does the smart sap sucker run off of a shurflo or an air compressor, I'm a little confused. Where does one purchase the sap sucker? Thanks again.

Lyford, the smart sap sucker is a controller/valve assembly that works together with a diaphragm pump (12V or AC). The controller allows for unattended operation and will turn the pump on or off off based on temperature, vacuum, or fault conditions like a low battery or pump failure. The diaphragm pumps usually do not like being run when lines are frozen (but I haven't tried it), so the controller handles pump on/off control. PM me if interested in one for this season or next.

I believe the Lunchbox releaser works off compressed air and can be left running all the time, no need for a controller.

Dave

[SSS2017]

Honestly, with my woods, I don’t think I will run a mainline. The way the smart sap sucker worked this year with my setup going tree to tree and the numbers I got from it... it doesn’t make sense to me to go through the hassle. I used semi-rigid line from Bascom and I was able to stretch it pretty good right from the start and have very little sag till this day. The only places I have sag is the long 300’ + run from my woods to the house and that made no difference in my vacuum on 3/16. Before I had a pine fall on my lines from last Friday’s storm I laid them on the ground and they still ran at 25 inches.

This will help with your setup
https://www.bascommaple.com/item/tsl/

[lyford]

SSS2017- thanks for the link, ordered it last night. Also, how careful are you when you run the tubing to maintain slope and reduce sagging. I'm also curious if I will get any runs on gravity (if the pump were to go out for any reason) with 3/16, having the minimal slope that I have. Are there any other downsides to the 3/16. Just trying to look at this from all angles before I jump in and make the investment. I am at this point leaning towards 3/16 with a SSS and a shurflo for next year. Thanks for your patience everyone, I appreciate the help. SSS you had the lines on the ground before the tree fell?

[SSS2017]

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SSS2017- thanks for the link, ordered it last night. Also, how careful are you when you run the tubing to maintain slope and reduce sagging. I'm also curious if I will get any runs on gravity (if the pump were to go out for any reason) with 3/16, having the minimal slope that I have. Are there any other downsides to the 3/16. Just trying to look at this from all angles before I jump in and make the investment. I am at this point leaning towards 3/16 with a SSS and a shurflo for next year. Thanks for your patience everyone, I appreciate the help. SSS you had the lines on the ground before the tree fell?

I actually shot everything with a transit for my 3/16 line but looking back I could have gotten by with the pocket level. The pump really does a good job even with sags. Where my lines come out of the woods, I have long stretches where I have slack in the lines so I was able to take them off the fence post support and lay them on the ground before the tree falls.

[Jolly Acres Farm]

Justin,
Last year I was on 45 buckets and averaged 23 gallons a week (5 weeks)on all reds 16-25” in diameter. I went to 3/16 lines this year and bought one of Dave’s smart sap sucker units with the shurflo pump. The difference is night and day. I have a 1000’ line and a 750’ line on one unit. I have 41 trees on the two lines. So far from February 9th (tapped) until today (4 weeks) I’ve averaged 104.5 a week!

My 3/16 lines run from tree to tree without a mainline. I just found it easier this year to do it that way without a mainline. I have very little slope on my property. I think maybe 15’ of elevation change from the back of the 1000’ line to my porch where I have the smart sap sucker and my collection tank. Dave’s unit also measures vacuum and I am consistently 24-26 inches.

Hope this helps

Where can I find one of these units from Dave, this soulds like the kind of setup im interested in.......

[lyford]

Well after reading the responses to this thread and many other older threads on the subject my biggest concern with the 3/16 is that I will get little to no flow from the taps if the vacuum goes out. Can't seem to get much of an answer from anyone with experience on the subject. Now maybe my land has more slope than it appears to the naked eye. Any way to inexpensively figure out just how much slope i do have? I like that fact the 3/16 is more forgiving of slopes, ie the down slopes make up for the up slopes, my concern is that I dont have enough down slope. thanks

[mike103]

The way i do it without use of a transit is with a regular level on a flat surface. Find a spot where you can see both your nearest tree and your farthest tree. look across the top of the level and mark the tree with tape, without moving level up or down, pivot level pointing at second tree, again sighting straight across, put piece of tape on that tree. Measure distance between trees and also distance in height from tape to tubing at both trees. take difference in height divide by distance in feet and you have slope. (approx). an example would be tubing is 3 feet above tape at farthest tree and 1 foot below tape at nearest tree equals 4 feet divide by 100 foot distance is 4 degrees slope. There is probably a better easier way but this works for me....

[mol1jb]

Well after reading the responses to this thread and many other older threads on the subject my biggest concern with the 3/16 is that I will get little to no flow from the taps if the vacuum goes out. Can't seem to get much of an answer from anyone with experience on the subject. Now maybe my land has more slope than it appears to the naked eye. Any way to inexpensively figure out just how much slope i do have? I like that fact the 3/16 is more forgiving of slopes, ie the down slopes make up for the up slopes, my concern is that I dont have enough down slope. thanks

You can get a $20 sight level that will get you close to knowing. I usually sight it to 100 ft level and then walk over the my sighted spot and measure up to my eye to calculate the raise or fall.

[Cedar Eater]

Well after reading the responses to this thread and many other older threads on the subject my biggest concern with the 3/16 is that I will get little to no flow from the taps if the vacuum goes out. Can't seem to get much of an answer from anyone with experience on the subject. Now maybe my land has more slope than it appears to the naked eye. Any way to inexpensively figure out just how much slope i do have? I like that fact the 3/16 is more forgiving of slopes, ie the down slopes make up for the up slopes, my concern is that I dont have enough down slope. thanks

My experience with a level line is that you will get some flow if the vacuum goes out if you provide a path other than through the pump. The flow from higher trees might try to feed back into lower trees. That's why you would use check valve spiles. Also, the flow will not go through a pump. That's why you would put a dump valve near the pump that opens when the pump shuts off to provide a bypass around the pump and a direct path into your collection tank.

[maple flats]

With 3/16 you do not need to have a continuous slope, it's the total drop in elevation that you need for it to give you vacuum.
Try this program, it might help: http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/elevation
I used it on one woods to plan how to get the sap out of the woods. Just locate your woods on the map and expand it as much as you need, then you can click on any point on the map and it will give the elevation above sea level. Plan from that. Then give us some details and someone on here can help you with some answers and suggestions. The things that will help most are the distance from the high point that will be tapped, to the lowest tap and the distance between them. That free program will give you all of those answers as long as you can pinpoint them on the map. When I did it, I could identify old stonewalls, the remnants of which were still there, which made it easy.