Couple questions on shurflo pumps

[lyford]

After collecting buckets for years I've had enough. Just a hobby producer trying to make 20ish gallons a year wanting to make the transition to vacuum. Based on what I've read seems like a shurflo pump is the best option for us financially (ie there cheap). I have 13 acres of mostly reds, and as we all know they can be quite varied in production with buckets and bags. My property is pretty long and narrow (350ishft x 2000ishft) and the maple trees are sporadically clustered throughout. Our land is very flat with the lowest area about 100ft behind the sugar shack, which is about 1500ft from my back property line. After doing some research on this site I still have a few questions, keep in mind I'm a total rookie when it comes to tubing and vacuum.

1. Is it better to use a mainline with a shurflo or should I use a pvc manifold with several 5/16 lines coming in? Why?

2. Should I place the pump near the middle of my property or at the lowest point (keep in mind the lowest point is not much lower than the rest of the property)? Also I could run a cord to the lowest area but the middle of the property is without power.

3. Will a shurflo pump really make that much of a difference with my reds in terms of sap volume? Will the trees that barely drip still produce very little or will there be a noticeable increase?

I think thats it for now, thanks. -justin

[mol1jb]

1. It would depend if you can pick up the majority of trees in one part of the property. Then taking the lines into a manifold would make sense and then pumping the discharge into a main that runs by gravity to your shack. But if they are too scattered you might be better off running one main centrally and bringing in the 5/16 lines into that. In general a shurflo pump can only displace a small amount of air and works better when the length of mainline is shorter. So putting all your 5/16 into a manifold attached to the pump would create a super short piece for the pump to create vacuum in.

2. If you did a central pump manifold then the middle of the property may make sense. If you did a central main then you could put the pump at the shack.

3. For every inch of vac applies to your trees you will be getting around 5% more sap. On my setup with shurflo I average 15" vac on my manifold and that has generated significantly more sap this season. On my 120 taps and pump I would be getting over 200 gallons per day on good flows.

[SSS2017]

Honestly, with my woods, I don’t think I will run a mainline. The way the smart sap sucker worked this year with my setup going tree to tree and the numbers I got from it... it doesn’t make sense to me to go through the hassle. I used semi-rigid line from Bascom and I was able to stretch it pretty good right from the start and have very little sag till this day. The only places I have sag is the long 300’ + run from my woods to the house and that made no difference in my vacuum on 3/16. Before I had a pine fall on my lines from last Friday’s storm I laid them on the ground and they still ran at 25 inches.

This will help with your setup
https://www.bascommaple.com/item/tsl/

[lyford]

SSS2017- thanks for the link, ordered it last night. Also, how careful are you when you run the tubing to maintain slope and reduce sagging. I'm also curious if I will get any runs on gravity (if the pump were to go out for any reason) with 3/16, having the minimal slope that I have. Are there any other downsides to the 3/16. Just trying to look at this from all angles before I jump in and make the investment. I am at this point leaning towards 3/16 with a SSS and a shurflo for next year. Thanks for your patience everyone, I appreciate the help. SSS you had the lines on the ground before the tree fell?

[SSS2017]

F8C544AD-A66E-430A-B986-8DFDA450D43C.jpg

SSS2017- thanks for the link, ordered it last night. Also, how careful are you when you run the tubing to maintain slope and reduce sagging. I'm also curious if I will get any runs on gravity (if the pump were to go out for any reason) with 3/16, having the minimal slope that I have. Are there any other downsides to the 3/16. Just trying to look at this from all angles before I jump in and make the investment. I am at this point leaning towards 3/16 with a SSS and a shurflo for next year. Thanks for your patience everyone, I appreciate the help. SSS you had the lines on the ground before the tree fell?

I actually shot everything with a transit for my 3/16 line but looking back I could have gotten by with the pocket level. The pump really does a good job even with sags. Where my lines come out of the woods, I have long stretches where I have slack in the lines so I was able to take them off the fence post support and lay them on the ground before the tree falls.

[achesser]

This year I used 2 4008 shurflo pumps on 140 taps. I used the manifold set up and have 2 tanks in the woods because of where the trees are. I just use a small 1.5" gas pump to transfer the sap to the sap house 600 feet away because it is up a hill. On decent runs I have 200-300 gallons to pump in the evening. I am at over 2 times the sap I collected with 200 buckets last year. My gauge is usually between 15"-20".

[Biz]

Regarding question #3, yeah, a pump or even a small amount of vacuum on reds makes a dramatic difference in sap flow. I have a line of 27 smallish reds on gravity 3/16, the highest tap is about 18' elevation from the barrel, but most are scattered between 8 and 15' drop and I see 15-18" on a gauge at the top. On good days I run over a 30 gallon barrel. I get maybe 2/3 the amount of sap as a similar gravity line on sugar maples. If I had a pump on it I would get a lot more. If on buckets I would not get nearly as much.

Dave

[SSS2017]

Regarding question #3, yeah, a pump or even a small amount of vacuum on reds makes a dramatic difference in sap flow. I have a line of 27 smallish reds on gravity 3/16, the highest tap is about 18' elevation from the barrel, but most are scattered between 8 and 15' drop and I see 15-18" on a gauge at the top. On good days I run over a 30 gallon barrel. I get maybe 2/3 the amount of sap as a similar gravity line on sugar maples. If I had a pump on it I would get a lot more. If on buckets I would not get nearly as much.



Dave

Justin,
Last year I was on 45 buckets and averaged 23 gallons a week (5 weeks)on all reds 16-25” in diameter. I went to 3/16 lines this year and bought one of Dave’s smart sap sucker units with the shurflo pump. The difference is night and day. I have a 1000’ line and a 750’ line on one unit. I have 41 trees on the two lines. So far from February 9th (tapped) until today (4 weeks) I’ve averaged 104.5 a week!

My 3/16 lines run from tree to tree without a mainline. I just found it easier this year to do it that way without a mainline. I have very little slope on my property. I think maybe 15’ of elevation change from the back of the 1000’ line to my porch where I have the smart sap sucker and my collection tank. Dave’s unit also measures vacuum and I am consistently 24-26 inches.

Hope this helps

[Jolly Acres Farm]

Justin,
Last year I was on 45 buckets and averaged 23 gallons a week (5 weeks)on all reds 16-25” in diameter. I went to 3/16 lines this year and bought one of Dave’s smart sap sucker units with the shurflo pump. The difference is night and day. I have a 1000’ line and a 750’ line on one unit. I have 41 trees on the two lines. So far from February 9th (tapped) until today (4 weeks) I’ve averaged 104.5 a week!

My 3/16 lines run from tree to tree without a mainline. I just found it easier this year to do it that way without a mainline. I have very little slope on my property. I think maybe 15’ of elevation change from the back of the 1000’ line to my porch where I have the smart sap sucker and my collection tank. Dave’s unit also measures vacuum and I am consistently 24-26 inches.

Hope this helps

Where can I find one of these units from Dave, this soulds like the kind of setup im interested in.......

[lyford]

Well after reading the responses to this thread and many other older threads on the subject my biggest concern with the 3/16 is that I will get little to no flow from the taps if the vacuum goes out. Can't seem to get much of an answer from anyone with experience on the subject. Now maybe my land has more slope than it appears to the naked eye. Any way to inexpensively figure out just how much slope i do have? I like that fact the 3/16 is more forgiving of slopes, ie the down slopes make up for the up slopes, my concern is that I dont have enough down slope. thanks