No more 3/16"- problematic

[blissville maples]

So this is my new take on 3/16 I had a Sugarbush which I was running 18 in and I said to myself well the 3/16 should boost that up so I added 300 taps on 3/16 all have 14-20 trees and over 30-40' drop. I have since replace my Dairy pump with an Air Tech which produces 28 and 1/2 in, I have a vacuum gauge attached to a short piece of 5/16 tubing where I can remove a spout out of a tree and do a vacuum test. I added a completely new run of 3/16 this year adding probably 20 trees the other day on Peak flow I want up and tested it it was around 18 in I was extremely disappointed I tested a couple others and I only had one that was above 20 it was at 25, whereas 10 out of 12 of them we're less than 20 in. I have found some Hollow trees which I removed did not seem to help. I do notice towards the bottoms the sap is moving faster through the line however not extremely fast indicating an air leak, there is still a full column of sap bubbles or a long bubble and then more full column of sap but it seems to be moving quicker than I think it should.

So basically my idea is on 5/16 you may run four-to-six Taps per line so if you have a problem you may lose one to six taps. However with 3/16 you could be losing up to 20 taps by one problem.... The other day I fixed 5 leaks which were costing me no production out of probably 120 taps if that was 5/16 it would have not been more than 25 tops.

So basically now that I have 28 1/2 inches up there I am losing High vacuum to probably 200 tabs maybe 250 because of the stupid 3/16 which two years ago I tore out the 5/16 to put this in and I've already started switching it back. as soon as the 5/16 goes back to the tree -28 in achieved.....

I do believe some things work great in the shop on paper however when you apply certain scenarios it's not always the case. I've ran up hill and down hill trying to find these leaks costing me hours and a lot of lost production.

[wurmdert]

I think that it would be difficult to square putting in 3/16 where there is already a vacuum system in place, unless it is used as a hybrid system. Half of the glamour of 3/16 is the low cost setup per tap with out electricity, vacuum pumps, releasers, etc. I have been using 3/16th for 4 years now and just like with any system its not perfect. I probably average 23" on most lines on the top taps. Leak detection is crucial, but I find very few new leaks once I get things tightened up at the beginning of the year. I am seriously thinking about a hyrbrid system next season using a Bosworth. Over all I am happy with it, it has close production comapared the full vacuum outfits in the area, 3 to 4 bucks a tap intall, yet vacuum leaks and sags are ignorant.

[blissville maples]

I was using a hybrid....dairy pump gave me 18" and was hoping the 3/16 would take it to 29" with the bill goat terrain it's at. I never tested it with the dairy pump, now I have the airtech I did test it and the results I posted, so this tells me I was probably less than 18 in on the 3/16 when I ran the dairy pump. I guess the thing I learned about that 3/16 is that it has absolutely no cfm's to it so one small leak and it's done. This year I have checked my twelve runs of 3/16 fixed all the leaks went back there ay later another leak again this is the second or third time this year and I'm losing so much sap because of this......I'm extremely frustrated, at least the vacuum pump has some cfm's behind it So on a line of 5/16 that has five to six taps if it has a leak it may only affect a couple of those taps but at least there's some vacuum there.....

[peteinvermont]

I'm with wermdurt - I love it, but only because my only alternative is 5/16 gravity. If I had the option of running mechanical, I'm not sure I'd ever roll out 3/16.

[GeneralStark]

I have a vacuum gauge attached to a short piece of 5/16 tubing where I can remove a spout out of a tree and do a vacuum test.

If I am reading this correctly, you are pulling the spout at the top of a line and then testing vac. by slipping the tubing on the gauge over the spout tip. If this is correct then you are likely getting an inaccurate reading and this is why. When you pull the spout, you introduce air to the system and have disturbed the column of sap in the line. It is this column of sap flowing downhill that creates the vac. in a 3/16 line.

If you were to crimp the drop on the line you are testing with visegrips with tubing on the grips (to protect your tubing), then pull the spout and attach your gauge and release the vise grips you would get a more accurate reading. Or better yet, T the vac. gauge into the top of the line at the end tree so you can see what the vac. is under normal sap flow conditions.

If I have your methodology correct and you are allowing air to enter the system, then your test is inaccurate, and your results are flawed.

[WESTMAPLES]

im running a small hybrid system the hills have 3/16th and the flatter areas 5/16th all into a main line under mechanical vac at 25 in and the gauges at the top of the 3/16th are buried past 28 in every time ive checked them with the pump on . im happy with it 3 seasons after installing itand its not a $0000 fancy system, but does make for decent gal per tap numbers when gathering. everyone has different situations , so maybe the 3/16th didn`t meet your outline of good production .....

[maple flats]

I also run with good success a hybrid system. On about 7-8 lines I have a gauge at the top tree and on 4 lines I have a gauge about 15-20' elevation above the mainline it empties into. That woods has a vacuum tank and I regulate the vacuum to 19". Then on the 2/3 of the bush where the 3/16 is practical because it has the necessary drop in elevation, on all I get 28-almost 29" on high barometric pressure days and on the 4 gauges lower down, it is either at that or less than 1 point less.
I'm with the General, your testing method is causing an error. It would take very little time, with 18" vacuum (on your old system) to empty the 3/16 line of sap, it had little or no sap left to give you any gain and with 3/16 being so small it did not get back up to even the vacuum the mainline had when you tested it. As said above, clamp the 3/16 line then pull the tap, or far better, just add a tee in the line where you want to get a reading and attach permanently a vacuum gauge. Those gauges will also help you identify when you have a leak.

[wurmdert]

Indeed I have permanent qauges on my lines. If I pulled the top tap, it would take quite a while for max vacuum to restore

[maple flats]

If I get a leak on 3/16, the gauges read real low after fixing the leak, but I never stood by to time how long it took to get back where it should be. I have a few times, on a return trip back across the hill maybe 30+ minutes later and it's back up however.

[5050racing]

Even though I have only 4 runs of 3/16"all 600-800' I have gauges at the top and 29" plenty of drop runs great,agree about having to wait till it runs to get a true reading,what you don't mention is what taps n tubing your using,that could be something to think about?im just a small hobbie guy 50 taps not to bash or anything like that just by chance I called a guy from CDL 4yrs ago and was SO HELPFULL so I bought from him. I like there 3/16 flex and use 5/16 to 3/16 taps and seem to be trouble free except for the squirrels love to chew it and I mean chew it so I remove n reinstall from now on less work I feel its easier to clean just me small operation,now I just bought some leaders 3/16 for another area next to me next year and will see if the squirrels leave it alone,now I also spoke with another great guy that sells leaders equipment and he helping me out to mention.He is a local guy so look forward to figuring out the best way for me!