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Thread: Vacuum Line question

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Barre Vermont
    Posts
    5

    Default Vacuum Line question

    We're loosing vacuum due to friction in the line caused by long runs up mainlines. We have a wet/dry line system, 2 releasers. I've seen a little bit on here about expansion tanks before the releaser to help gather the vacuum before you use it again, do these work? Any other ideas would be much appreciated.

  2. #2
    Haynes Forest Products Guest

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    This is what I know in my system. There is very little friction in a vacuum line under high vacuum. In reality its the high pressure air rushing in to fill the void that slows down the process. The tank will help by allowing the air to rush into the larger area. Its like a packed hall way full of kids entering a large auditorium.

    Yes if your vacuum line to your releaser is undersized the best fix is to have a tank as close to the manifold as possible with a good size transfer line.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Essex VT
    Posts
    403

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    What size is your wet/dry lines and how far are you running to your releaser?

    Joe
    2004- 470 taps on gravity and buckets
    2006- 590 taps on gravity and buckets 300 gph RO
    2009- 845 taps on vacuum no buckets, 600 gph RO
    2010- 925 taps on vacuum new 2 stage vacuum pump
    2014- 3045 taps on vacuum, new 1200 gph RO
    2015- 3104 taps on vacuum
    2017- 3213 taps on vacuum
    3' x 10' oil fired evaporator with steamaway

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Barre Vermont
    Posts
    5

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    We have 2 releasers, one is maybe 100' from the vacuum with a 2" line. When that releaser is deadheaded we can get 27.5" of vacuum. From that releaser the line runs a long ways, maybe 3000' to the next releaser, we loose .5" by the time the vacuum gets there. We have a lot of mainline and we use manifolds at all the junctions. We were told that a booster wouldn't help the situation. I know we probably need bigger mains but that's obviously not going to happen soon since this system has only been in the woods for a year. Just trying to figure out what we can do in the meantime.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    11,559

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    My best suggestion is two-fold. First add a large tank (3-4x the volume of the releaser) close to the second releaser (that way there will be a "stash" of extra vacuum when the releaser trips), then order Steve Childs' Tubing Handbook and read it fully. It will give you all of the answers.
    For one thing, regardless of the pump, if the transfer line for that vacuum is under sized you get no more vacuum out 3000' than if you had a much smaller pump. That notebook will give you the sizes you need to get the vacuum out 3000'. That large vacuum tank will help but will not be a cure, the only cure is to use the right size vacuum line.
    After the sugar season you could also hire a tubing installer, they will know what size pipe you need, it may be 2.5", maybe 3" maybe more.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Barre Vermont
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maple flats View Post
    My best suggestion is two-fold. First add a large tank (3-4x the volume of the releaser) close to the second releaser (that way there will be a "stash" of extra vacuum when the releaser trips), then order Steve Childs' Tubing Handbook and read it fully. It will give you all of the answers.
    For one thing, regardless of the pump, if the transfer line for that vacuum is under sized you get no more vacuum out 3000' than if you had a much smaller pump. That notebook will give you the sizes you need to get the vacuum out 3000'. That large vacuum tank will help but will not be a cure, the only cure is to use the right size vacuum line.
    After the sugar season you could also hire a tubing installer, they will know what size pipe you need, it may be 2.5", maybe 3" maybe more.
    All the mains/vacuum lines were run by a tubing installer, both this year and last. . . .

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bristol, VT
    Posts
    1,978

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    You could run an additional line to the further releaser to increase the cfm capacity. What size is that line?
    About 750 taps on High Vac.
    2.5 x 8 Intens-O-Fire
    Airtech 3 hp LR Pump
    Springtech Elite 500 RO
    14 x 24 Timber Frame SugarHouse
    16 x 22 Sap Shed w/ 1500 gal. + 700 gal. tanks
    www.littlehogbackfarm.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Barre Vermont
    Posts
    5

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralStark View Post
    You could run an additional line to the further releaser to increase the cfm capacity. What size is that line?
    That's what we have been told to do, 2".

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Essex VT
    Posts
    403

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    How many taps at 3,000' and how many CFM is your pump?

    Joe
    2004- 470 taps on gravity and buckets
    2006- 590 taps on gravity and buckets 300 gph RO
    2009- 845 taps on vacuum no buckets, 600 gph RO
    2010- 925 taps on vacuum new 2 stage vacuum pump
    2014- 3045 taps on vacuum, new 1200 gph RO
    2015- 3104 taps on vacuum
    2017- 3213 taps on vacuum
    3' x 10' oil fired evaporator with steamaway

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Barre Vermont
    Posts
    5

    Default

    2400 taps, not sure of the cfm honesty. It's a new vacuum that CDL sells. We put in a Y connection before the first relearer today and changed out the union hoping to cause a little less friction. We'll see what happens....

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