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Thread: This year could be it for me. Thanks FDA

  1. #11
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    ..........
    Last edited by Scm; 04-11-2018 at 08:27 AM.

  2. #12
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    You need to check, but I believe that they have put implementation of the rules on hold for now.
    Sugaring for 45+ years
    New Sugarhouse 14'x32'
    New to Me Algier 2'x8' wood fired evaporator
    225 Sugar Maples Currently,(105 on 3/16" and 110 on Shurflo 4008 vacuum, 10 gravity), (16,000 before being disabled)
    1947 Farmall H and Wagon with gathering tank
    2012 Kubota with forks to move wood around

  3. #13
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    It was in the Maple News recently
    984 taps on 24-25" of vac, downsizing to 200-300 all sugars
    SmokyLake 2x8 raised flue on Silverplate airtight arch, same side reverse
    Smoky Lake Great Lakes Guardian Auto Draw
    Wes Fab 7" short bank filter press
    Gast 3040 dry vane vac pump, Lapierre electric releaser
    A&A Finish Tank
    Syrup made 2010:36 gal 2011:126 gal 2012:81 gal 2013:248 gal 2014: 329.5 gal 2015:305 gal 2016:316 gal 2017:258 gal 2018:147 gal
    Tapping the same trees my great, great and great grandfathers tapped.

  4. #14
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    Southern Ohio
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    Here is a link to current information from ODA and OSU ext

    https://s3-wp-lyleprintingandp.netdn...compressed.pdf

  5. #15
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    Buckeye thanks for the link. I have no problem with the Ohio regulations. The federal FDA regs, however, are as clear as mud to me. I tried looking through some of it, and yes, employee washrooms were in there. As well as approved septic systems. I didnt look hard enough to find the restaurant bottling area regs.
    984 taps on 24-25" of vac, downsizing to 200-300 all sugars
    SmokyLake 2x8 raised flue on Silverplate airtight arch, same side reverse
    Smoky Lake Great Lakes Guardian Auto Draw
    Wes Fab 7" short bank filter press
    Gast 3040 dry vane vac pump, Lapierre electric releaser
    A&A Finish Tank
    Syrup made 2010:36 gal 2011:126 gal 2012:81 gal 2013:248 gal 2014: 329.5 gal 2015:305 gal 2016:316 gal 2017:258 gal 2018:147 gal
    Tapping the same trees my great, great and great grandfathers tapped.

  6. #16
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    Knapp, Wis
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    Quote Originally Posted by heus View Post
    Buckeye thanks for the link. I have no problem with the Ohio regulations. The federal FDA regs, however, are as clear as mud to me. I tried looking through some of it, and yes, employee washrooms were in there. As well as approved septic systems. I didn"t look hard enough to find the restaurant bottling area regs.
    I think your reading far more into this than needs be! I read a part in the link about "floors must be concrete, wood, or gravel." If this is true as I read it, I can't imagine being able to have a employee washroom and septic......and being able to have that while having a gravel floor. For the government to crack the whip this hard and fast seems unlikely. They know they have to roll this out very, very slowly without people catching on, or they will have a revolt on their hands. (With that being said, there is no lack of information reporting that the purpose of the FSMA of 2011 is designed to shut down the small producers.) You can choose to believe or not believe, but personally I think it holds some water. The government is known for wanting fewer, bigger, and consolidated everything....easier to control.
    Wisconsin has been the strictest state for inspections as far as
    I know....and has been for years.
    I could never figure out how Vermont and other states were able to skirt food safety inspections as long as they have. In Wisconsin its pretty cut and dried, you have always needed a license (food processing license) if you sell to another party for reselling, (not including bulk sales to packers until about 8 years ago when this also started.) There is no "exemption" for producers that tap 75% or more of their trees as was stated in the summary. You guys are lucky!
    Mark

    Where we made syrup long before the trendies made it popular, now its just another commodity.

    John Deere 4000, 830, and 420 crawler
    1400 taps, 600 gph CDL RO, 4x12 wood-fired Leader, forced air and preheater. 400 gallon Sap-O-Matic vacuum gathering tank, PTO powered. 2500 gallon X truck tank, 17 bulk tanks.
    No cage tanks allowed on this farm!

  7. #17
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    Mark the link you mentioned (gravel floors, 75%...) applies to ODA rules. I am more worried about the federal (FDA) rules. There is something called national supremacy. Federal law supersedes state law when in conflict with each other. It doesn't matter what Ohio's regulations are if the federal government wants to supersede them. Yes, I m probably overreacting. On the other hand, I also wonder why people are not reacting enough.
    984 taps on 24-25" of vac, downsizing to 200-300 all sugars
    SmokyLake 2x8 raised flue on Silverplate airtight arch, same side reverse
    Smoky Lake Great Lakes Guardian Auto Draw
    Wes Fab 7" short bank filter press
    Gast 3040 dry vane vac pump, Lapierre electric releaser
    A&A Finish Tank
    Syrup made 2010:36 gal 2011:126 gal 2012:81 gal 2013:248 gal 2014: 329.5 gal 2015:305 gal 2016:316 gal 2017:258 gal 2018:147 gal
    Tapping the same trees my great, great and great grandfathers tapped.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Knapp, Wis
    Posts
    1,869

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    Quote Originally Posted by heus View Post
    Mark the link you mentioned (gravel floors, 75%...) applies to ODA rules. I am more worried about the federal (FDA) rules. There is something called national supremacy. Federal law supersedes state law when in conflict with each other. It doesn't matter what Ohio's regulations are if the federal government wants to supersede them. Yes, I m probably overreacting. On the other hand, I also wonder why people are not reacting enough.
    I can't comment on the national supremacy, you may be right, maybe not? All I can tell you is what happened here in Wis. Two years ago the state inspectors really started to crack the whip, actually it was in 2012, and then they didn't come for an inspection for three (3) seasons! All the while I was getting the yearly license (sent them the $95) without having an actual inspection done. Seriously!!?? In the just of all this, it became apparent to many producers that the consistency between inspectors, and even the consistency with the same inspector between different producers was very much different. (favoritism) IMO.
    In the summer of 2016, the state Dept. of Ag held forums around the state.....primarily because of the new grade issue, but also for the public to comment on the force that seemed to be in the barrel of the inspections. A big part was not being able to keep and use RO water for anything, even cleaning the membrane. In a nutshell, ADCTP 87 was born out of this which relaxed many of the brute force requirements that were required for say a cheese plant. Where this is all going? I don't know? I do know the state is and has been charged with carrying out the FDA guidelines. The problem is neither organization is staffed enough to get all the inspections done. Two springs ago when I questioned the inspector as to why no inspection had been done at my facility for the past 3 years before, even though I sent in my money, his reply was to blame Scott Walker for cutting too many government employees and benefits, and not replacing retirees within the department..
    Last edited by markcasper; 02-13-2018 at 04:26 AM.
    Mark

    Where we made syrup long before the trendies made it popular, now its just another commodity.

    John Deere 4000, 830, and 420 crawler
    1400 taps, 600 gph CDL RO, 4x12 wood-fired Leader, forced air and preheater. 400 gallon Sap-O-Matic vacuum gathering tank, PTO powered. 2500 gallon X truck tank, 17 bulk tanks.
    No cage tanks allowed on this farm!

  9. #19
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    ..........
    Last edited by Scm; 04-11-2018 at 08:29 AM.

  10. #20
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    Ohio Dept of Ag has the contract with FDA to do inspections for them. They are actually on our side (ODA) and will be reasonable. I got that right from the horses mouth. I see no mass sweeping action in the near future, when it happens it will be much like Wisc., I suspect.

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