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Thread: Poor man's continuous flow system

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Quaker Hill, CT
    Posts
    328

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    I'm using THIS pump from amazon. You can run the pump of a 12v battery or you can get a power supply which is what I did.

    You don't want to heat up your storage container that's just begging for any unused sap to spoil and make a mess of your tank.

    Instead of pumping warm sap back to the storage tank its better to send cold sap back to the storage tank. In the picture you can see how I put a tee fitting in and a valve to control the flow that goes back into the tank. There is another valve right before the sap goes in the pan. To set it up and adjust flow it goes like this:

    Both valves wide open
    Start pump and get flow
    Close the valve on the tee just enough that you get a solid stream of water into the pan. This should be a very small adjustment.
    Adjust flow into the pan with the valve near the pan. This valve can be anywhere from wide open to almost closed depending on how much flow you need to meet your evaporation rate. You want to make sure you have at least a steady drip going into the pan or you will overheat the sap in the coil.

    With 2 valves setup like this you have infinite control of flow of sap into your pan. From super slow trickle to max flow from the pump.


    To flush the coil with this setup I get a 5 gallon bucket of clean water ready to go. I shut off pump, then put the pump suction into the bucket of clean water. Shut the valve on the tee and open the valve going to the pan wide open. Direct the outlet of the tube away from your pans (I have a flexible piece of tubing the last 18" or so going to the pans so I can just point it onto the ground). Turn the pump on and pump the water thru the coil. After flushing open up the tee valve and let the coil drain onto the ground. You now have a clean coil that will dry out.

    I'm using push to connect fittings that I can remove from the copper when I'm done. I remove them so there is no chance of them melting.

    My copper tubing is 3/8" OD tubing 25 feet long. It could be longer but 25 feet fit the budget.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    2017 25 taps on buckets got me hooked 1 gallon of sweet
    2018 51 taps on 3/16 tubing/ DIY oil tank evaporator 8.5gallons finished
    2019 60 taps 7 gallons finished ended season short
    2020 New 2x4 divided pan ready to get away from the headache that is steam table pans
    2021 off year due to pandemic and projects
    2022 back at it

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Speyside, Ontario
    Posts
    270

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    Thanks for the details!

    I was only using 1/4 copper tubing before so 3/8 would probably be better at absorbing the heat and not scorching. Also, I would plan on only heating the sap I would plan on batch boiling. No risk of sap spoiling in the storage container.

    Any idea of the temp of the sap after your preheater?
    2015 - 8 buckets, 332L sap, 8.5L syrup - Barrel evaporator, 2 steam pans
    2016 - 8 buckets, 432L sap
    2017 - 10 bags, 470L sap, 9L syrup
    2018 - 20 bags, 1050L sap, 17.6L syrup
    2019 - 20 bags, 970L sap, 22.2L syrup
    2020 - 17 bags, 813L sap, 17L syrup

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Quaker Hill, CT
    Posts
    328

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    At medium boil rates the sap out of the preheater gets too hot to let it run on your finger. When its cranked up to full boil and there is a good stream of sap going thru the preheater it gets warm probably around 90-100. It's warm enough so it doesn't kill the boil in the pan.

    If I get a chance next boil I will work on getting some temps. So far with everything so new it's been a handful to keep an eye on everything.

    I only used 25 feet of tubing so if you need more heat you just need more tubing. Wrapping the tubing tight to the stack with the insulation also makes a big difference.

    Other details are I have an 8 inch stack and according to the magnetic temp gauge my high fire is around 500. At 500 my front two pans are solid bubbles and the middle two are violently boiling and the back is a rolling boil.
    2017 25 taps on buckets got me hooked 1 gallon of sweet
    2018 51 taps on 3/16 tubing/ DIY oil tank evaporator 8.5gallons finished
    2019 60 taps 7 gallons finished ended season short
    2020 New 2x4 divided pan ready to get away from the headache that is steam table pans
    2021 off year due to pandemic and projects
    2022 back at it

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    OH
    Posts
    174

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    I came across this thread and I'm really interested in the siphons between steam table pans. I run 3 pans side by side (long sides touching) and would love to add sap on one end only. Currently I add fresh pre-heated sap to all 3 pans at the same time. It's been 2 years since this thread, so have are you still using the siphons?
    2021: 28 taps. 18"x36" flat pan and dual natural gas burners.
    2020: 31 taps. 3 full size steam table pans on a custom 6x water heater natural gas burner setup.
    2019: 31 taps on silvers. Back porch gas cook top with 2 full size steam table pans. An amazing 14.9 gallons in my backyard!
    2018: 22 taps on 9 silvers. Propane turkey fryer and full size steam table pan on electric stove. I made 4.25 gallons in my backyard!

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Weston, CT
    Posts
    473

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    My recent experience with the siphon tubes is that they work well in a non boil environment but the more you are boiling your sap the more likely/sooner the siphons fail.

    I.E. they do not work well in a rapidly boiling pan of sap as the tubes get air logged from the rapid boil rather rapidly.

    I don't think their is a solution to this problem unless boiling you sap slowly is an option.

    You can do well from a pre heater pan to a boil pan with the siphon, because typically your pre heater pan will not be in a rapid boil.
    If you think it's easy to make good money in maple syrup .... then your obviously good at stealing somebody's Maple Syrup.

    Favorite Tree: Sugar Maple
    Most Hated Animal: Sap Sucker
    Most Loved Animal: Devon Rex Cat
    Favorite Kingpin: Bruce Bascom
    40 Sugar Maple Taps ... 23 in CT and 17 in NY .... 29 on gravity tubing and 11 on 5G buckets ... 2019 Totals 508 gallons of sap, 7 boils, 11.4 gallons of syrup.
    1 Girlfriend that gives away all my syrup to her friends.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Quaker Hill, CT
    Posts
    328

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    I'll give an update to this after a couple of seasons of steam pans and siphon tubes.

    It was a lot of work and baby sitting to keep the siphon tubes working and free of air locks. When it was working it was nice but when I had the rig running at full temp and a hard boil I would end up spending half my time using a ladle to transfer sap from pan to pan.

    I kept trying to get creative and find ways to keep the tubes from air locking but I wasn't willing to put any money into fittings, because in the end I knew the siphon tubes were a hold over until I bought a real pan.

    Setting up a gradient in your steam pans makes the end of the batch easier to finish and I liked seeing the change from clear raw sap to amber sweet. I had issues with sugar burning on the upper edge of my final pan because me pans were set fully in the fire. I'm sure it darkened my finished product but I never tasted any burnt flavors.

    Again like the siphon tubes the steam pans were the cheapest way I had to increase my boiling rate without buying a real pan. They worked great for what they are but between the burned sugar on the edges and boiling over and spilling of sap I'm sure I lost most finished product during the cooking than I want to think about.

    I was very happy with my pumped preheater with the re-circ loop to control flow. I was able to get very hot preheated sap and control the flow rate into my pans. Because it was pumped and their was pressure in the preheat tube I never had any issues with burning of sap in my stack preheater.

    For this coming season I bought a 4x2 divided pan from Bascoms. Its shiny and new and I'm excited to use it. It was also $425 dollars that I didn't have available to spend in the last couple of seasons.

    Would I do the siphon tubes again? Sure I would it was fun and creative. I learned a bunch while doing it. I also "feel" like it improved my boiling rate. I really have no data to back that up. It sure did keep me busy though.

    Am I happy to throw them in a corner and let them collect dust while I use a real divided pan setup? You betcha.
    2017 25 taps on buckets got me hooked 1 gallon of sweet
    2018 51 taps on 3/16 tubing/ DIY oil tank evaporator 8.5gallons finished
    2019 60 taps 7 gallons finished ended season short
    2020 New 2x4 divided pan ready to get away from the headache that is steam table pans
    2021 off year due to pandemic and projects
    2022 back at it

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    OH
    Posts
    174

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    Thank you guys for the info. I've read through a couple threads and the consensus seems to be that they take some tinkering. One of the other threads suggested a petcock valve and hand primer (opposed to sucking with your mouth) to get the air out of tube. Like you said though, it's just more money invested when I plan to get a pan next year anyway.
    2021: 28 taps. 18"x36" flat pan and dual natural gas burners.
    2020: 31 taps. 3 full size steam table pans on a custom 6x water heater natural gas burner setup.
    2019: 31 taps on silvers. Back porch gas cook top with 2 full size steam table pans. An amazing 14.9 gallons in my backyard!
    2018: 22 taps on 9 silvers. Propane turkey fryer and full size steam table pan on electric stove. I made 4.25 gallons in my backyard!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Lebanon, IN
    Posts
    291

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    For what it's worth, our second evaporator was an old Champion that used siphon tubes. Maybe it will help, you can get an idea of how they were built in the photos below. At the bottom of the first photo you can see how the bottom of the tube sits in a little cup, not on the bottom of the pan.

    No doubt this was a tricky system to run, we definitely had to keep an eye on the siphons. But it did work. Good luck

    DSC00680.jpg DSC00676.jpg DSC00675.jpg
    Doug
    Maple Creations
    Coatesville, IN
    350 taps on 5/16 tubing & 4 Lunchbox pumps
    MemProTec Concentrator 300 RO
    Wood-fired 30"x8' D&G Model 500 raised-flue w/Steam hood & blower
    Smoky Lake finisher, D&G filter press,
    http://www.facebook.com/maplecreations

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Cleveland
    Posts
    25

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    Sorry to say, but this was such a smart setup, I had to copy it! Was only 17 degrees last weekend, so the lines kept icing up on me. However, this week it’s running perfect for my setup! Thanks for working this one through! It is a little noisy, especially the reverberation in the stack. I’ve got hose clamps keeping it snug, and ceramic around the coil, and that seems to help dampen it. IMG_2656.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Ohio Maple Blaster; 02-24-2020 at 06:46 AM.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Quaker Hill, CT
    Posts
    328

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    Nothing to be sorry for. I think it's awesome that you like the setup and it's working for you.

    It is certainly noisy from the reverberations in the stack but that's a function of the small reciprocating pumps. They are just noisy, but they are cheap and they work. I've done the same as you to try and quiet it down but like you it only helps a little. The noise is just a trade off for sap that is near boiling going into the pan which is worth it to me.

    One of these days I will work on getting a pressure gauge plumbed into the system. I think that would really help in getting the valves adjusted correctly.
    2017 25 taps on buckets got me hooked 1 gallon of sweet
    2018 51 taps on 3/16 tubing/ DIY oil tank evaporator 8.5gallons finished
    2019 60 taps 7 gallons finished ended season short
    2020 New 2x4 divided pan ready to get away from the headache that is steam table pans
    2021 off year due to pandemic and projects
    2022 back at it

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