2018 Bulk Price

[n8hutch]

At our Local Hannaford you can buy quarts of Organic Syrup in the Organic foods section cheaper than some of the non Organic syrup in the syrup/cereal isle. So I Don't see the price of Organic going up too much until people stop selling syrup to these big stores for 9-10 dollars per qt.

I think Being Organic gives you a slight edge as far as being able to move your Syrup in a Market that is Saturated but over all i think it's not worth the Aggravation.

[spud]

At our Local Hannaford you can buy quarts of Organic Syrup in the Organic foods section cheaper than some of the non Organic syrup in the syrup/cereal isle. So I Don't see the price of Organic going up too much until people stop selling syrup to these big stores for 9-10 dollars per qt.

I think Being Organic gives you a slight edge as far as being able to move your Syrup in a Market that is Saturated but over all i think it's not worth the Aggravation.

With 1000 taps it might not be worth going organic as you say. Organic does pay $2.20 more per gallon of syrup. For those who have a lot of taps it does pay off. For me it gives me $5-8000 more per season. Organic can be sold as non organic if needed. Non organic cannot be sold as organic. Going organic is something that every sugar maker has to decide for themselves.

Spud

[n8hutch]

I can see where it makes sense for Bulk producers to be Organic .bulk producers need ever cent they can get I suppose, and since this is a thread on Bulk prices I guess it makes sense if you can get 10% more for your syrup.

For me in my area I feel like I would be spending say 5% more to produce the syrup to make the same Margin on the Retail end, only place I may gain would be with the very very few that would perceive that there is a difference between Maple Syrup produced "Organically" and maple Syrup that is not certified Organic.

[Flat Lander Sugaring]

This is what I have always said, could never figure out how Vermont could build such a image and not have to be inspected?? We must be inspected to sell to a packer in Wisconsin. I think its just a matter of time and vermont will have to toe the line as well. We vacationed in Vermont in 2003 and fully one half of the sugarhouses were dives IMO. Sure changed the way I viewed things from there on out.

I know what you are saying, I feel inspection are coming.

[spud]

I can't speak to your other points of being organic as it would deviate from the topic but a premium does not exist to reimburse someone for their extra paperwork. The premium exists because there is a market for organic syrup. It's all about supply and demand. If there was a shortage of organic syrup, the price would go up. There seems to be a fair balance between what is needed and what is being supplied so packers give the slight premium so that level continues. If they needed more and couldn't find it, the price would go up to encourage producers to go through the certification process so there would be more on the market.

I think the reason that you have to wait until the Quebec season ends to set the Vermont organic price is that they produce 70% of the maple syrup. I think the market has a certain need for organic syrup and if Vermont had a bad season and Quebec had a good season, packers would just use the Quebec organic because consumers are shopping based on price for the most part.

I would have to somewhat disagree on your first point. If a Vermonter wants to be Organic there is not only paperwork to do but also they have to pay a fee and comply with the Organic standards. We also have to pass yearly inspections. My point was the Vermonters that do not sell organic do not have to comply with much of any standards. They can run a filthy operation and answer to nobody. If they want to sell to a packer all they have to do is bring their syrup in stainless barrels. If they want to sell their syrup at a flee market or in a store they still do not need to be inspected. A person could make their syrup in a lead soldered turkey fryer and cook hotdogs in the sap while boiling it and then bottle it up and sell it at the flee market. Their evaporator could run on Nuclear Power and still it's ok to sell in stores. There are some stores that would require inspections to take place but thats up to them. In VERMONT organic syrup is the safest syrup to buy. Most non Organic producers make a quality syrup but how can the consumer be sure? The answer is they cannot. This is why I feel the Organic price should be a minimum of .50 more per pound. On your second point I do understand supply and demand. Although the packer said they have to wait on the Canada season to be over to set the Vermont Organic price. The Canada season has nothing to do with Vermont Organic. If there was a surplus of Vermont Organic then I could see the packer say they would have to wait to see how the VERMONT ORGANIC season goes before setting the price on Vermont organic syrup. As of now the packers feel just giving .21 cents more a pound is good enough.

Spud

[DaveB]

Although the packer said they have to wait on the Canada season to be over to set the Vermont Organic price. The Canada season has nothing to do with Vermont Organic. If there was a surplus of Vermont Organic then I could see the packer say they would have to wait to see how the VERMONT ORGANIC season goes before setting the price on Vermont organic syrup. As of now the packers feel just giving .21 cents more a pound is good enough.

Spud

I respectfully disagree that the Vermont organic market has nothing to do with Canadian season. The two are connected because if the Vermont organic price is high, the packers just won't buy it because they have a ready source of other organic syrup to replace it.

Let's say Vermont sets it's organic syrup price at $3/lb. Then the Canadian season ends and they set their price at $2/lb. The packer could buy the Vermont syrup but then needs to offer it to his customer at the higher price. The customer has a choice - do I buy the higher priced Vermont organic or this other syrup that is also organic? The consumer is mostly going to buy based on price and buy the Canadian organic syrup.

Now, there is a segment of the market that is going to say I want Vermont organic syrup but depending on how big that is, you might have unsold product. Unsold product is worthless because there is no willing buying so the price comes down. Where they settle is premium.

Unfortunately, the packer can't set the premium until he know what the entire market is and since Canada produces 70% of the syrup, they have to wait until that price is set and adjust accordingly.

[spud]

Thanks DaveB. That does make sense to me now. In your state does non organic producers need to be inspected before selling to a packer? Wondering about other states also.

Spud

[DaveB]

Thanks DaveB. That does make sense to me now. In your state does non organic producers need to be inspected before selling to a packer? Wondering about other states also.

Spud

There are inspections for being organic but Connecticut does not require inspections of maple syrup producers.

My understanding is that if you do sell syrup to a packer that you have to be registered with the FDA and that by registering you open yourself up to inspection.

[markcasper]

If there was a surplus of Vermont Organic then I could see the packer say they would have to wait to see how the VERMONT ORGANIC season goes before setting the price on Vermont organic syrup. As of now the packers feel just giving .21 cents more a pound is good enough.

Spud

So help me understand.....Vermont has their own "organic" syrup classification? I thought the new grading system was meant to standardize everyone, and do away with individuality if you will? What is stopping a Vermont packer from covering their needs with less expensive Canada organic and still call it vermont? Sounds like what Wisco. does with cheese, as long as 30% of the product is from Wisco. the rest can be from wherever, whenever and still be labeled "Wisconsin" cheese. What a scam!!

We have had to be inspected to sell to a packer for at least 8 years now, maybe 10! We have always needed to be inspected (besides bulk), for any sales other than sales direct to the consumer (i.e., farm stand, farmers market, craft show, etc....). Wisconsin I believe is the strictest of any state or province as far as inspections are concerned. I have noticed many Wisco producers using it in their advertising, unlike Vermonters who are unable to b/c there is no standard for inspections there.

[markcasper]

There are inspections for being organic but Connecticut does not require inspections of maple syrup producers.

My understanding is that if you do sell syrup to a packer that you have to be registered with the FDA and that by registering you open yourself up to inspection.

If your state does not require and carry out inspections (the state is the ones carrying out the FDA inspections in most cases), then the odds of you getting inspected are next to nil! I cannot believe the states that do not require inspections of maple operations??!