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Thread: 2018 Bulk Price

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Westford, Vermont
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    238

    Default 2018 Bulk Price

    I apologize if this is already an active thread, but I couldn't find one with a few quick searches.

    I am curious about the anticipated drop in bulk pricing for the 2018 season. I've heard widely that the price is expected to drop. I guess I'll find out more at this Saturday's maple conference in Hyde Park.

    I don't think the Federal Reserve up in Quebec have posted their 2018 prices yet, but last year they were paying 2.95 a pound and 2.94 a pound for the top two grades. I don't imagine they will drop their price a whole lot, but maybe they will, I don't know. Their prices last year were the same as the previous year.

    Some other factors I think of

    -Canadian dollar is about 4 cents higher than it was this time last year (so this should result in a more favorable price paid to American producers)

    -Quebec dominates the market and controls pricing to a strong degree through their reserve

    -The reserve is meant to stabalize prices and it seems to work overall for Quebec producers, but our prices our dropping

    Here is my question- Why do our syrup prices continue to drop despite the relatively steady price that Quebec has set over the last few years? In my unexperienced and unknowing mind, our bulk payment should be whatever it costs to buy imported Quebec syrup (taking into account exchange rate, obviously).

    I feel I understand the recent oversupply issues that we have been facing, but given the stable existence of the reserve, why are American bulk prices dropping? Shouldn't the reserve temper that? What allows packers to pay American producers less than what they would have to pay syrup that comes from Quebec?

    Thanks for any insight into this and good luck in the 2018 season.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Knapp, Wis
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    1,872

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WestfordSugarworks View Post
    What allows packers to pay American producers less than what they would have to pay syrup that comes from Quebec?

    Because you and I will haul it in to them is the simple answer. Law of supply and demand at work. The dollar has not dropped enough yet to measure as these things take time to work through. I was told just a few weeks ago by a major buyer in Wisconsin that even if it was a disastrous season world wide in 2018, there is still enough reserve syrup sitting around to last close to the 2019 season without prices moving upwards at all. He mentioned prices dropping another .20 cents per lb., but that drop was not confirmed from any "reliable" sources. They won't get much commercial syrup @$1.00 lb. I know that. And then one day once again someone will realize there is a shortage, and then the equipment catalogs will once more state on the back cover to "hang on at the evaporator just a few more days". As Bruce Bascom once stated.
    Mark

    Where we made syrup long before the trendies made it popular, now its just another commodity.

    John Deere 4000, 830, and 420 crawler
    1400 taps, 600 gph CDL RO, 4x12 wood-fired Leader, forced air and preheater. 400 gallon Sap-O-Matic vacuum gathering tank, PTO powered. 2500 gallon X truck tank, 17 bulk tanks.
    No cage tanks allowed on this farm!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Upper Michigan
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    631

    Default

    I had a buyer tell me that most producers live hand to mouth and they have to accept what I am offering. Why sell when it is low? You can buy used stainless shipping containers that are insulated and easy to cool.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bristol, VT
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    1,978

    Default

    "Why do our syrup prices continue to drop despite the relatively steady price that Quebec has set over the last few years?"

    Several factors, some of which you mention. First is exchange rate....second is two record years in a row in the US and Canada...and the third is that the federation essentially acts like a cartel. We have more a free market system so supply and demand affects pricing more dramatically affects our bulk pricing. The federation can set the price because they have the largest supply of maple syrup and they control how it is apportioned into the market. There is obviously more nuance but these are the major factors.

    SO what can US producers do about it? Several things likely but a couple ideas would be to set quotas on expansion here in the US as they do in Quebec. Wait for a bad season or two. Or given that we have a federal administration apparently happy to slap tariffs on imported goods (solar panels most recently), producers could advocate for a tariff on canadian syrup....
    About 750 taps on High Vac.
    2.5 x 8 Intens-O-Fire
    Airtech 3 hp LR Pump
    Springtech Elite 500 RO
    14 x 24 Timber Frame SugarHouse
    16 x 22 Sap Shed w/ 1500 gal. + 700 gal. tanks
    www.littlehogbackfarm.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Walpole, NH
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    Default

    As long as people keep expanding production without finding BRAND NEW Markets, and warehouses are full with Maple Syrup, the bulk price is going to stay the same or continue to plummet. Everyone complains about the low price of bulk, but then turn around add more taps. If you strictly rely on bulk sales and don’t try to market your syrup retail, then you lose and really don’t have anyone to blame but yourself.
    Sugaring for 45+ years
    New Sugarhouse 14'x32'
    New to Me Algier 2'x8' wood fired evaporator
    2022 added a used RB25 RO Bucket
    250 mostly Sugar Maples, 15% Soft Maples. Currently,(110on 3/16" and 125 on Shurflo 4008 vacuum, 15 gravity), (16,000 before being disabled)
    1947 Farmall H and Wagon with gathering tank
    2012 Kubota with forks to move wood around

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Sebago, Maine
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    217

    Default

    ^ What he said. If you're wholesaling your syrup you're helping to drive the price down. It's supply and demand, everyone keeps adding more taps to make up for the lower price. Blame Canada all you want, but more taps without more market doesn't help bring the price up.

    Here's a thought, everyone tap less trees this year.
    Greene Maple Farm Sebago, Maine
    7 Generations of Maple Syrup
    http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/...01122259971904

    Phillip View Farm
    Sebago, Maine
    30 Highland Cattle
    2 Alpacas, numerous pigs
    Chickens, lots of chickens
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
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    11,547

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    Here's a far more profitable suggestion, tap more trees, but retail all of the grade A you make. Develop markets and sell it all at retail. Also, convert some into value added products.
    I have not sold any bulk except Commercial in 2 years and the year before that I had graded one barrel as Com. but they bought it as Very Dark.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Knapp, Wis
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    1,872

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maple flats View Post
    Here's a far more profitable suggestion, tap more trees, but retail all of the grade A you make. Develop markets and sell it all at retail. Also, convert some into value added products.
    I don't dispute your way of thinking, but what you say is easier said than done. Why? Because all your neighbors and their added taps are direct competition against you. Your neighboring sugarmaker is your worst enemy. We are in a difficult time in this part of history no doubt. It takes a vast amount of time to "add value" and develop new markets and that time most likely is better utilized else where in terms of making money. Depends on everyones situation of course.

    I have noticed several producers trying to sell syrup at $60-$65 a gallon and $18-$20 a quart. Sorry, but that is highway robbery for a product that people do not need. If your able to sell all of your syrup at that price great! If your selling at those prices and still have to sell bulk at $22 a gallon, maybe you should lower your retail price and not complain about why bulk prices are so low and going lower!

    The RO's and vacuum tubing of today have ultimately brought us to this point.
    Last edited by markcasper; 01-26-2018 at 03:22 PM.
    Mark

    Where we made syrup long before the trendies made it popular, now its just another commodity.

    John Deere 4000, 830, and 420 crawler
    1400 taps, 600 gph CDL RO, 4x12 wood-fired Leader, forced air and preheater. 400 gallon Sap-O-Matic vacuum gathering tank, PTO powered. 2500 gallon X truck tank, 17 bulk tanks.
    No cage tanks allowed on this farm!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Salisbury, N.H.
    Posts
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    Default

    Hunh...with a major packer in vt saying they are only going to buy 90% of what they bought from their steady suppliers and there already being oversupply in the market (i was at bascoms a week ago and bruce told me he had enough syrup on site to meet his packing needs until this comming august) plus the price now at 2.10 for fancy (but call first cause they dont really want too much more........).......and major taps added this year. (Lots and lots)....i dont think price will stay where it is...and i dont think you will be rolling tractor trailer loads of barrels anywhere without some negotiation.....
    But all it would take is 2 bad years in a row.......really?....in the past sure,,but when you are serious about vacuum and you maintain 28.5 inches you can make a whole lot of syrup in 5 or 6 days........plus lots of taps have been added this year....more than the demand has grown...and the crown added how many taps?
    The folks who depend on industry expansion and real low bulk prices will say all kinds of things to keep you adding taps because it bennifits them,,,cant blame them...
    I know a bunch of folks that retail their syrup and need more supply to meet markets....but...if you are shipping bbls why would you add taps now???
    The demand and the price will be dropping for bulk.....
    Quotas...come on man....if you want to roll the dice and add 10k taps now you know the risk,,,,why should you be rewarded with a quota? Its a free market...
    I really think the market will be pretty brutal in 3 to 4 months
    Value added and retail market share are critical.....now more than ever
    I do wish everyone the best of luck mabey some huge market will open up,,but,,im not banking on it
    Salisbury Sugarworks,,Parker Rowe, and friends
    Salisbury, N.H.
    1988 taps in 09
    over 2500 on vac in 2010
    no buckets in 2010
    2815 taps in 2011
    shooting for 3000 in 2012
    4000 taps? In 2014
    5x16 wood fired "Mighty Marvin"
    50 cords in the shed
    Old, old R.O.
    Charter member Andover/Salisbury Mapleholics
    http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/4...s009bx4.th.jpg

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Salisbury, N.H.
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    Default

    The syrup that comes from qubec costs something to get it here...when you truck it to the packer they save a little money.....im not sure but i think that if you buy from the federation you have so much a year you have to buy...if the packer is committed to buy a certin ammount and they only need so much from the u.s and there is an oversupply here......Im betting 2 a pound once the season starts and dropping from there .....

    In the past how many taps were set in january in the u.s........and how many taps are ready to go today in the u.s.,,,,,,,,,,,i dont think a bad year is a real possibility
    Salisbury Sugarworks,,Parker Rowe, and friends
    Salisbury, N.H.
    1988 taps in 09
    over 2500 on vac in 2010
    no buckets in 2010
    2815 taps in 2011
    shooting for 3000 in 2012
    4000 taps? In 2014
    5x16 wood fired "Mighty Marvin"
    50 cords in the shed
    Old, old R.O.
    Charter member Andover/Salisbury Mapleholics
    http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/4...s009bx4.th.jpg

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