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Thread: Getting ready

  1. #121
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    Granville, PA
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    Super Sapper, the 125 RO that I picked up is the expandable model and I believe that it has the same pump that your 250 is equipped with. I believe that this is the reason for Ray's comments about the 5 gallon per minute. I also thought that with a high pressure pump, the volume into the pump is the same as the volume out of the pump out regardless of head, the pressure increases with resistance not the volume reducing but I may be incorrect about that. I will look into it.
    Haynes, the term "Getting Ready" came about before my first season when I was trying to do just that. Little did I realize at that time that you never finish "getting ready". I'm looking forward to the blissful world of Replication. Maybe at that point I will be ready.
    Matt,
    Minehart Gap Maple

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
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    Minehart, you are correct, but with just 1 membrane you will not be able to go from 2% to 8% in one pass. You will need to back off on the pressure or the RO will shut down on high pressure.
    Yes, that 125 by Ray Gingerich uses the same pumps (feed and high pressure) as his 250 and the pump will move the same amount of sap, the difference is that you will not be able to make the higher concentrate in 1 pass. That will work out just fine. While I've never run a 125 by Ray, my guess is that if you start at 2% sap you might get to maybe 5.5 or so in the first pass and then to 8% or very close in a second pass. That will not be a problem. You can either run a second intermediate tank or you can simply do like I do with my 250. If I start at 2% I run it to 7.5-8% in one pass into the head tank, then I draw from the evaporator feed line from the head tank, back thru the RO and pump the new higher concentrate back into the head tank. I feed my head tank near the top on one end and the evaporator feed line is at the opposite end of the head tank. One my second pass I just run the RO continuously but at a lower pressure. I run 1st pass at about 270-275 PSI and back off for 2nd pass to about 240-250 PSI for best results. When the head tank level gets low (I'm boiling at the same time) in about 60-75 minutes, I just open the sap feed valve the the RO as I close the recirculate valve.
    On that 125 I suspect there are 2 needle valves, just like my 250. The smaller one is for recirculation. The more you open that valve the less total output you will have from the concentrate hose, but the higher the sugar % will be. I suspect with a 125 using the 250 pump you can likely have that valve open more that I do on my 250, thus getting to a higher sugar % out the concentrate. That will all just take practice. I suggest you get a good sap hydrometer that will read to 10% or even 12%. Use a long hydrometer, the short ones are harder to get an accurate reading, but even they are better than nothing.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  3. #123
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    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
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    One other point, as the pressure rises the volume drops. The HP pump is not a linear flow, it varies by the pressure, more pressure less flow and less pressure more flow.
    When I say you will not be able to run at the same pressure as if you had a second membrane I should correct that, you may be able to still run at 275 PSI but the needle valve will likely be open more than if you had 2 membranes, and at that pressure you should get to about the 5.5% (if the sap was 2%). With about 1/2 gpm of concentrate and 1.5 GPM of permeate. If you someday add a second membrane you will then get about 1 gpm of concentrate and about 3 gpm of permeate flow if you run it at about 275 PSI.
    After talking at length with minehart gap on the phone last evening and based on info Matt got from Ray Gingerich, I must amment my calculations. According to Ray (he manufactures the 125 Deer Run RO), since the pump is the same one used on his 250 GPH RO, it still will move about 250 GPH, the difference is the % of concentrate and permeate that results with a 125. In that case the RO will give a ratio of 50-50 or up to 60-40, with those percentages in relation to 250 GPH. Once the fog was cleared from my thinking that makes perfect sense.
    Sorry if I messed up anyone's calculations. I forgot the pump was still moving about 250 gph, the difference was just that a 125 has 1 4x40 membrane and a 250 has 2.
    Last edited by maple flats; 10-17-2018 at 10:07 AM. Reason: corrected info
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  4. #124
    pdiamond Guest

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    Check out your states dnr website. It sounds like oak wilt usually happens between may and august according to the michigan dnr website. the only way to stop it is by cutting and burning. it can spread through the root systems too. hopefully this will give you a place to start. good luck with the sugar bush.

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Granville, PA
    Posts
    403

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    Ordered and received my Auber Instrument auto drawoff control and probe and just received my Echotech valve. The footer for the root cellar was poured in the rain last Friday and the first 3 courses of block got laid today.

    I've read and reread everything that I can find on RO's but I'm still unsure. I have thought about tapping a few birch this fall to try it out.

    pdiamond, thanks. I read about oak wilt and believe that may be what I have. I will be cutting those trees up this winter for next years fuel.
    Dave, thanks for the conversation, it cleared up a lot. I think that I just need to get my RO running and get used to it.

    BTW, how does everyone find out about the different trainings and get togethers. I know about the one coming up at the New York state Fair grounds but missed one this past weekend. Are there any in PA? There is of course the tour in the spring but I'm looking more for classes or lectures.
    Matt,
    Minehart Gap Maple

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
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    There are a few ways to find classes and lectures. First, click on "new posts", then look for new posts under "maple resources" towards the bottom of the main page and finally look under the various state associations (lower ,below maple resources) and another place is to watch the "sugar Inn" near the top.
    Info on those can appear in any of those areas. Maybe we also need a new section, "upcoming events". I will look into that.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    11,547

    Default

    I forwarded that thought to the Forum owner.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Granville, PA
    Posts
    403

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    Dave, could it be as easy as utilizing the calendar, I see it's last update was nearly a year ago. Or does that have a different purpose?
    Matt,
    Minehart Gap Maple

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    11,547

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    My last update was only about 3-4 weeks ago. By the way Matt, you have the newest version.
    Dave
    Last edited by maple flats; 11-14-2018 at 09:21 AM.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Granville, PA
    Posts
    403

    Default

    Cave is now done, poured the floor yesterday and finished backfilling. I will hang the door for the colder weather in the forecast. Also put a 3 bowl sink in the sugar shack so I can comply with the inspection. Hung another 500' of mainline last weekend and started rehanging laterals (I take them down at the end of the season).

    This coming week, I hope to have all of the wiring run so I can have light in the evenings and hang more laterals. It's all coming together nicely now. Should have everything ready to tap before going to the New York Convention.
    Matt,
    Minehart Gap Maple

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