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Thread: CV spouts or CV spout adapters?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biz View Post
    I am going with the 3/16 tees with 5/16" drops and CV's next season like Nate mentioned.
    That approach (3/16" tubing with 5/16" drops) should experience reduced sanitation-related taphole drying than 3/16" tubing alone, especially when combined with a CV spout after the first year.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  2. #12
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    I'm dredging up this thread because a lot of the information in here is useful and a good place to ask a few related question. I have 3/16 drops on 3/16 natural vac tubing on 50 trees with good slope. I am adding a shurflo 4008 12v pump to this to make it a hybrid system

    My tubing and drops are coming up on the 3rd year and look clean. I have changed spouts yearly. This year, I'd like to use a CV to prevent back flow into the tap hole. Is there any benefit of using a CV adapter and stubby? At the end of the year, do you discard these CV spouts adapters or sanitize them? If you sanitize them, how do you do it with the check valve preventing back flushing the lines and drops?
    Chad

    2014: 12 taps, 5 gal buckets
    2015: 15 taps on bags
    2016: 150 taps: 100 on bags, 50 on 3/16" natural vac, 2x8 AUF/AOF Homebuilt Arch, 2x8 SL Drop Flu & Auto Draw, SL Propane Canner/Bottler
    2017: 225 taps: Built Lean to, Added SL hood, preheater, concentric exhaust, SL SS 7" SB Filter Press

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocsMapleSyrup View Post
    Is there any benefit of using a CV adapter and stubby?
    The benefit is mainly convenience. Some people prefer to use a CV/stubby combination, others prefer to replace the entire spout. After many years of research, we can see a very very small "stubby" effect (reduction in sap yield), but it is so minor as to be negligible. Historically, people may have chosen one over the other due to the fact that the original CV was black nylon and the original CV spout was clear polycarbonate. Now the CV adapter is available in clear polycarbonate, so that difference is gone.


    At the end of the year, do you discard these CV spouts adapters or sanitize them? If you sanitize them, how do you do it with the check valve preventing back flushing the lines and drops?
    They are made to be replaced new each year. There has been some work done trying to sanitize them, but generally you can't get them to perform quite as well as new. While you can get them sanitized, small amounts of microbial residue left inside the assembly of used spouts seems to prevent proper seating of the ball during backflow events. rendering them somewhat less effective over time.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  4. #14
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    This year, we installed a new section of bush (a few thousand taps) with 5/16 laterals, and with 3/16th drops (using 5/16 x 3/16th tees on the laterals). The idea is that over the 3 feet of the drop line (we have run the laterals/mains as low as possible, and will tap as high as possible), you might build another inch or two of vacuum to supplement the vacuum from the pump house. I did not consider the issue of backflow from the laterals into the tree due to the reduced diameter of the drop line - this is good point and I will need to carefully consider this in the future. In the first year, there is no bacterial in laterals or in the drops, so we should be ok. In the future, we need to make sure that we use the check valves as our 3/16th drop-lines will be particularly susceptible to the back-flow into the tap.

    Are there other reasons to reconsider going with 3/16th drops on 5/16th laterals in the future? Are others out there trying this out as well?
    PCFarms - Producer of Maple Syrup and Distributor for H2O
    2015- 2500 taps
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  5. #15
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    [QUOTE=DrTimPerkins;338523]The benefit is mainly convenience. Some people prefer to use a CV/stubby combination, others prefer to replace the entire spout. After many years of research, we can see a very very small "stubby" effect (reduction in sap yield), but it is so minor as to be negligible. Historically, people may have chosen one over the other due to the fact that the original CV was black nylon and the original CV spout was clear polycarbonate. Now the CV adapter is available in clear polycarbonate, so that difference is gone.

    Is it hard to get the polycarbonate off the stubby?

  6. #16
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    I starting using the CV adapter with stubby combo and then switched to the CV spout. I don't have the leaks and micro leaks with the spouts than I did with the CV adapter and stubby combo. On a hard freeze the stubby would sometimes get pushed off of the adapter, that can't happen with the spouts.
    Russ

    "Red Roof Maples" Where the term "boiling soda" was first introduced to the maple producing world!

    Algier 2x6 evaporator, W F Mason arch
    Lapierre 125gph RO machine
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins View Post
    After many years of research, we can see a very very small "stubby" effect (reduction in sap yield), but it is so minor as to be negligible. Historically, people may have chosen one over the other due to the fact that the original CV was black nylon and the original CV spout was clear polycarbonate. Now the CV adapter is available in clear polycarbonate, so that difference is gone.


    So Tim, are you saying that if you use clear stubby's AND clear CV's you don't get any "stubby" effect as you say? Do they even make clear stubby's? Either I am too dumb, but I don't think I have ever seen any? Leader? Too my knowledge I didn't know they made clear stubby's. Please share if thats not so. Thanks.
    Mark

    John Deere 4000, 830, and 420 crawler
    1400 taps, 600 gph CDL RO, 4x12 wood-fired Leader, forced air and preheater. 400 gallon Sap-O-Matic vacuum gathering tank, PTO powered. 10 bulk tanks.

  8. #18
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    I also switched from the combo to the single, seasonal CV. There are too many factors in my woods to accurately determine if one performance is better than another, but another consideration is the amount of time you are spending at each tree. In years 2 and 3, once the stub is on then you are just going into your woods with a bag of taps, a drill, and a hammer. It's very quick work. With the single-piece CV, you have to carry a tubing tool with you, install it first then you can tap.

    It doesn't sound like much, but it does add up - easily doubling my tapping time. Not a deal breaker, but something to plan on. Lastly, a handful of the single-piece CVs break and stay in the tree when I'm pulling them at the end of the season. Again, not a deal breaker. Just something to be aware of.
    Woodville Maples
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    Something north of 200 taps
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by markcasper View Post
    So Tim, are you saying that if you use clear stubby's AND clear CV's you don't get any "stubby" effect as you say? Do they even make clear stubby's? Either I am too dumb, but I don't think I have ever seen any? Leader? Too my knowledge I didn't know they made clear stubby's. Please share if thats not so. Thanks.
    Sorry for being unclear -- I will try to clarify.

    I don't believe that Leader Evaporator makes a clear polycarbonate stubby, but it's been a few months since I chatted with them, so I can't say for sure. They do now make a CV adapter in polycarbonate along with the original black nylon CV adapter (and the polycarbonate CV spout). To clarify that, since not everyone knows or uses the same terminology, a spout is a single piece with an end that goes into the tree and an end that connects to tubing. An spout adapter or adapterhas an end that goes into the tree, and needs to be paired with a stubby to connect to tubing in order to function. A stubby (or stub spoutconnects to the tubing and a spout adapter to form a complete spout assembly. Typically spouts or spout adapters and other fittings come in polycarbonate (usually clear or lightly-tinted translucent) or nylon (solid black or some other solid color). Some newer style spouts are also being made of a different material. Note that not all stubby and adapter combinations will work together.

    After several years of sanitation research at UVM PMRC, we determined that with a black stubby and a black (original) CV adapter, that we could see a very small "used stubby" effect, in that after reusing a stubby for several years, it could cause a very slight reduction in sap yield compared to using a new stubby/CV adapter annually (which is something most people wouldn't do anyway). Again....it was very small, on the order of 1-2%, but it was there. We think it is because the small fingers of the CV adapter are in very close contact with the used stubby, and picking up microbes. Since the CV ball rolls around some during normal use, it was picking up some contamination from the stubby and transferring it back into the taphole. Please don't misunderstand....there was still a HUGE benefit to using the CV adapter in this case, just that it was very slightly less than using a totally new stubby/CV adapter.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  10. #20
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    The ball in the CV polycarbonate adapter is farther away from the stubby. The black adapter had the ball right in the back that goes into the adapter and is in close contact.

    I asked Leader a few years ago if they were going to make a polycarbonate adapter. I was told definitely no because polycarbonate holds so well you would not get it off the adapter.

    Then a year later Leader is selling them.

    My question is were they full of it or are they hard to get off the stubby?

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