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Thread: Do I have enough cfm

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    madison ohio
    Posts
    105

    Default Do I have enough cfm

    Looking to add a sap ladder in my bush. Would need to lift 400 taps 20 feet or so. Currently have a sp22 pump
    Matthew Cross
    Madison, Ohio
    400 taps on vacuum with surge sp-22
    200 buckets
    30 x 10 leader max
    w/ enhanced steam away and Pre-heater

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Walpole, NH
    Posts
    1,363

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    What size vacuum line do you have running from the pump to releaser then to the laddder?
    Sugaring for 45+ years
    New Sugarhouse 14'x32'
    New to Me Algier 2'x8' wood fired evaporator
    2022 added a used RB25 RO Bucket
    250 mostly Sugar Maples, 15% Soft Maples. Currently,(110on 3/16" and 125 on Shurflo 4008 vacuum, 15 gravity), (16,000 before being disabled)
    1947 Farmall H and Wagon with gathering tank
    2012 Kubota with forks to move wood around

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    madison ohio
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    1.5", current set up is a electric releaser 600' away from pump. Would like to switch to a double mechanical releaser at the sugarhouse
    Matthew Cross
    Madison, Ohio
    400 taps on vacuum with surge sp-22
    200 buckets
    30 x 10 leader max
    w/ enhanced steam away and Pre-heater

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Thetford, VT
    Posts
    450

    Default

    I am not sure on the specs for the SP-22. We run a 3 HP liquid ring pump. We have a single releaser about 725' away and ran 1.5" poly pipe to it. We have a very short ladder for about 40 taps that is about 2' tall. Just enough to have decent slope and stay out of the snow. Then we have about 12 taps running in a 5/16" line about 12' up a tree into their own 1" mainline. They are in a cooler location, but it works like a charm when it gets running on a warm day. Then about 800' out we have a 8' ladder servicing about 30 taps. This is a six star setup and it always runs well...well as long as the vac is up above about 20". During start up you can watch the vac gauge on the vacuum or watch the ladder....like clock work.

    I believe our 3 hp unit has 30 cfm and after 20" of vac it will run the ladders. We normally end up with 26" of vac when it is tuned in for the year.

    Mike
    Tapping since 1985 (four generations back to early to mid 1900s). 200-250 taps on buckets and then tubing in the mid 90s. 2013- 275 taps w/sap puller 25 gal. 2014-295 taps w/sap puller 55 ga. (re-tapped to vacuum theory) 2015-330 taps full vac. 65 gal, 2016-400 taps 105 gal, 2017-400 taps 95 gal. 2018-additional 800' mainline and maybe 400 new taps for a total near 800 taps. 2x6 Leader WSE (last year on it) supported by a 250 gph RO.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Hoosick Falls
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    2,000

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    Do not make a ladder 20' tall it is far more efficient to make ladders 16' and shorter. To get an 18" ladder to work efficiently I need 24" or more. The old inch er foot of rise is good on paper but in the real world of maple it is flawed. I have several ladders and the best flowing ones are under the 16' level. They are also easier to work on and clean as needed. If you do 2 at 10' you will be much happier and will have no issue with an sp-11 or a bb2 pump. on a 20' ladder you will be adding more injected bubbles and the slippage( the sap that runs around the side of the bubble) will increase dramatically.

    I will have to search my records but as I recall at 25" an sp-11 I rebuilt and sold was pulling around 4 cfm at 20". Sap level cfm and the 15" cfm ratings are vey different. I have a Delaval cfm tester andvacuum tester on sp-11-4.jpgvac tester on sp-11-3.jpgVac tester on Sp-11-2.jpgVacuum tester on sp-11.jpg

    Attached are the results on that particular pump. Over the next week she seated and would pull 28.5" on a system of 500 taps. When first rebuilt the unit will read a lower level and typically increase as she settles in as used.
    Ben
    Last edited by BreezyHill; 10-01-2017 at 02:00 PM.

  6. #6
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    Dec 2008
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    madison ohio
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    Default

    can you run two vacuum pumps to "double" the cfm?
    Matthew Cross
    Madison, Ohio
    400 taps on vacuum with surge sp-22
    200 buckets
    30 x 10 leader max
    w/ enhanced steam away and Pre-heater

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
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    6,391

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossBroMaple View Post
    can you run two vacuum pumps to "double" the cfm?
    Yes, but you want them to be fairly well matched in capacity.
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    https://mapleresearch.org
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  8. #8
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    Mar 2013
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    Hoosick Falls
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    it is more important to have the pumps matched on vacuum level so as to not pull oil out of the other pump than their cfm capacity. Learned this one the hard way. lol

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    madison ohio
    Posts
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    I would be running two sp-22 pumps. just thinking I would need the extra cfms to work my ladder system
    Matthew Cross
    Madison, Ohio
    400 taps on vacuum with surge sp-22
    200 buckets
    30 x 10 leader max
    w/ enhanced steam away and Pre-heater

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    247

    Default

    I will be following this topic, i am also looking to lift 300-400 taps in the future and would like to use vacuum instead of another dumping station with seperate pump. Plus im right down the street from you so i might be able to check out some day if you go through with it
    Thanks
    Kevin

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