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Thread: land appraisal

  1. #1
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    Dec 2005
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    Knapp, Wis
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    Default land appraisal

    My parents had the farm appraised and....the appraised value came in @$3600 an acre. Woods, sugarbush, corn field, did not matter, the appraiser valued it all the same at $3600. This is straight land, no nothing else. The appraiser commented that tillable land has come down slightly recently, but that woodland value is being held up by hunters and recreationalists.

    So my comment is how can someone pay $3600 per acre for sugarbush and lease it out for $1 a tap, or even $2 a tap and make this work? At the same time, how can you make this pencil and make it work at sub $2/ lb. syrup?

    My last comment on real estate listings in New England versus Wisconsin is that you guys in the east are getting a bargain in buying land.
    Mark

    Where we made syrup long before the trendies made it popular, now its just another commodity.

    John Deere 4000, 830, and 420 crawler
    1400 taps, 600 gph CDL RO, 4x12 wood-fired Leader, forced air and preheater. 400 gallon Sap-O-Matic vacuum gathering tank, PTO powered. 2500 gallon X truck tank, 17 bulk tanks.
    No cage tanks allowed on this farm!

  2. #2
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    May 2011
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    Chatham NH
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    How big is your family farm? 3600 per acre is cheap or expensive depending on quantity, you can't buy a 1 acre house lot on good groutdoor for less than 50k where I live. But you can buy a 100 acres of cut over woodland for as little as 125k at times. But generally anything with any wood at all on it even just pulp wood would bring 2k to 2500 per acre. It seems like 20 acres is the threshold where land value seems to go down. Anything smaller and your looking at 5 to 50k per acre
    Last edited by n8hutch; 08-10-2017 at 02:19 PM.
    Nate Hutchins
    Nate & Kate's Maple
    2022 1000 taps?
    3x10 Intensofire
    20x36 sugarhouse
    CDL 600gph RO
    A wife and 2 kids.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by n8hutch View Post
    How big is your family farm? 3600 per acre is cheap or expensive depending on quantity, you can't buy a 1 acre house lot on good groutdoor for less than 50k where I live. But you can buy a 100 acres of cut over woodland for as little as 125k at times. But generally anything with any wood at all on it even just pulp wood would bring 2k to 2500 per acre. It seems like 20 acres is the threshold where land value seems to go down. Anything smaller and your looking at 5 to 50k per acre
    I am sorry, I should have clarified. 450 acre dairy farm (quit milking last November) The buildings were given very little value in comparison. So, this is yes, for more than 20 acres. Actually, 240 acres were appraised at $3600, while the balance was appraised at $3800 (little better soil). All the land has easy township blacktop road access on 1 or 2 sides. So no, not looking to break it up for house lots with an illusionary 15,000 per acre price tag.
    Mark

    Where we made syrup long before the trendies made it popular, now its just another commodity.

    John Deere 4000, 830, and 420 crawler
    1400 taps, 600 gph CDL RO, 4x12 wood-fired Leader, forced air and preheater. 400 gallon Sap-O-Matic vacuum gathering tank, PTO powered. 2500 gallon X truck tank, 17 bulk tanks.
    No cage tanks allowed on this farm!

  4. #4
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    Knapp, Wis
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by n8hutch View Post
    But generally anything with any wood at all on it even just pulp wood would bring 2k to 2500 per acre.
    Still alot less than $3600! Wood on the land here means nothing the appraiser said. We are in a very bad spot for wood sales. Excellent quality lumber on our soils, but too far away from the mills to get a decent price. Our area is prime for loggers to screw the landowner using this excuse.
    Mark

    Where we made syrup long before the trendies made it popular, now its just another commodity.

    John Deere 4000, 830, and 420 crawler
    1400 taps, 600 gph CDL RO, 4x12 wood-fired Leader, forced air and preheater. 400 gallon Sap-O-Matic vacuum gathering tank, PTO powered. 2500 gallon X truck tank, 17 bulk tanks.
    No cage tanks allowed on this farm!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
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    11,547

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    I've heard where one appraiser gave an appraised value and another appraised it radically different. You may want another appraiser.
    It might be time for you to set up a sawmill business to compliment your syrup business.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  6. #6
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    Mar 2012
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    Walpole, NH
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    Default

    If the appraiser has no experience in farmland and woodlands, then I would find a new appraiser. A good appraisal will break out the different land types and uses and assign different values.
    Sugaring for 45+ years
    New Sugarhouse 14'x32'
    New to Me Algier 2'x8' wood fired evaporator
    2022 added a used RB25 RO Bucket
    250 mostly Sugar Maples, 15% Soft Maples. Currently,(110on 3/16" and 125 on Shurflo 4008 vacuum, 15 gravity), (16,000 before being disabled)
    1947 Farmall H and Wagon with gathering tank
    2012 Kubota with forks to move wood around

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAP View Post
    If the appraiser has no experience in farmland and woodlands, then I would find a new appraiser. A good appraisal will break out the different land types and uses and assign different values.
    The hired appraiser specializes in farms only! She used 6 different recent farm and woodland property sales within two of the same townships in which our farm land is located. According to the appraiser, and as mentioned before, wooded land value in this area is driven higher soley because of hunting and recreation, not the value of the timber. In other words, we could clear cut the woods and it would still be appraised at $3600 per acre.

    Now you say that a good appraisal "will break out different land types and uses and assign different values." I'm thinking that to mean if you would cut it up and sell lots/parcels, then its value would no doubt be higher?
    Mark

    Where we made syrup long before the trendies made it popular, now its just another commodity.

    John Deere 4000, 830, and 420 crawler
    1400 taps, 600 gph CDL RO, 4x12 wood-fired Leader, forced air and preheater. 400 gallon Sap-O-Matic vacuum gathering tank, PTO powered. 2500 gallon X truck tank, 17 bulk tanks.
    No cage tanks allowed on this farm!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    142

    Default

    If the wood is really worth nothing to the appraiser and you are selling I'd hire a forester to find out what the wood is really worth. That way you could clear cut the woods to make some money with out harming the value of your land at all, assuming the appraiser is actually right.

  9. #9
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    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
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    I have a question. This is your parents land, right? Is the appraisal to establish a value for you to buy it? Is it being sold off or is this just to help decide a course of action? If siblings are being given the farm or parts of the farm, is everybody on the same page? I've seen families torn apart when one gets what others perceive as favoritism. When my grandmother passed, my father inherited the whole farm and of 7 remaining siblings 4 fought it and got bitter feelings. What they didn't see was that while his parents were alive, every time his parents had to take out a mortgage, my dad made all of the payments, even though he had a home and mortgage of his own. He in reality bought the farm 3 times, but the others thought they should get an equal share. The will was written so each of the others were to get a set/equal dollar amount and dad got the farm. For him to pay that amount, he had to again mortgage the farm and then pay it off a 4th time.
    More recently, when my dad died, the property went to mom, when mom died us 3 kids got what little was left. The way that was done is that the house was put in our 3 names back in 1980, but they had life use, dad died in 2003 and mom in 2015. Then all 3 were equal and all went well. Their biggest request was that the house (which dad had built) remain in the family. We recently completed that request by selling the home to my niece and her husband.
    If something like this is the reason for the appraisal, unless you are the sole child, try to smooth any friction.
    Good luck!
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Knapp, Wis
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    1,872

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loch Muller View Post
    If the wood is really worth nothing to the appraiser and you are selling I'd hire a forester to find out what the wood is really worth. That way you could clear cut the woods to make some money with out harming the value of your land at all, assuming the appraiser is actually right.
    Its not that the wood does not have any value....its that what value it does have would be basically gone when the forester gets his cut, and the logger gets his. (And the appraiser knows this). This woods is in the managed forest plan until 2024. In 2011 there was a harvest completed after being up for bids since 2008. (no bidders for 3 years.) Its about 50 acres wooded BTW. northern hardwoods.

    When the sale was over......between the professional forester charges, the DNR getting their cut, and the reduced price because of the loggers share, the folks profited roughly $1,000, and that was even after I making the logger cut more out than what was marked.

    The appraisal was done because of current estate plans. And that is another volcanic eruption taking place currently. Some of the land will be gifted in return for a lifetime of sweat equity on behalf of my brother and I (we will assume the remaining mortgage BTW), and some is destined to be purchased in the future.
    Last edited by markcasper; 08-11-2017 at 02:15 PM.
    Mark

    Where we made syrup long before the trendies made it popular, now its just another commodity.

    John Deere 4000, 830, and 420 crawler
    1400 taps, 600 gph CDL RO, 4x12 wood-fired Leader, forced air and preheater. 400 gallon Sap-O-Matic vacuum gathering tank, PTO powered. 2500 gallon X truck tank, 17 bulk tanks.
    No cage tanks allowed on this farm!

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