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Thread: Black spots and Hydrogen Peroxide

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
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    Old Lyme, CT
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    Default Black spots and Hydrogen Peroxide

    This was my first year using tubing. I ran 5/16 tubing to about 100 taps on level ground and used a small diaphragm pump to recreate vacuum.

    In the last few weeks, I notice black spots on the inside of some stretches of tubing, mostly sections that are in the sun:

    tubing with spots.jpg

    After reading several threads here about different techniques to clean tubing, I decided to flush the system with a food grade Hydrogen Peroxide solution.

    I bought food grade 35% Hydrogen Peroxide from an on-line seller:

    Hydrogen Peroxide bottle.jpg

    I filled my sap tank with about 100 gallons of water and added about 2 quarts of the Hydrogen Peroxide to the water. I then removed the last spout on each of my 3 lines and pumped the solution from the sap tank through the tubing until it ran out of the last spout onto the ground. I let it run for about 10 minutes. Then I capped the spout and kept the lines filled with the solution overnight.

    In the morning, I flushed the rest of the solution through the lines but the black spots on the inside of the tubing did not go away:

    tubing with spots - 2.jpg



    I'm not happy. Could it be that the Hydrogen Peroxide was inert?

    Is there a way one can tell if Hydrogen Peroxide has retained its potency?

    Looks like I'll be trying the bleach next


    Mark
    Mason 2x4 w/raised flue pan, 240 gal. sap tank, 80 Reds on 5/16 tubing and Lunchbox releaser/pump, 20 sugars on buckets

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Brockport, NY
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    Default

    I've found with using Hydrogen peroxide that it can leave residue and or spots there even after an overnight soak. In tanks, this was solved with a hosing out with regular water with a nozzle on it ( I don't use it on tubing, but on tanks). More volume/pressure took the spots right off.
    Others with direct tubing experience may have other solutions (ha ha pun intended).
    good luck--be good to hear your 5/16 overall experience too...that may be in another thread, I've not looked yet.
    Last edited by MapleMark753; 06-13-2017 at 04:39 AM. Reason: put 3 instead of 5 originally

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default

    I would be very careful with bleach.
    Those black spots i dont believe are just going to come out of tubing, you would have to rub or scrub and thats not going to happen.

    How old is the tubing?
    Business Name
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    Peru, Maine
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    Default

    We suck hydrogen peroxide through our taps with the vacuum pump on when pulling taps. It helps flush out the drops but it does little for the lateral tubing lines. You're not going to get that mold out with any cleaner. Some of that will get sucked through next year during sap runs or you can cut it out and replace it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
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    Default

    Cleaning tubing is best done within a few days of the end of the season, before any mold begins to show. When you pump the hydrogen peroxide solution up thru the tubing just let it discharge 3-4 minutes, then plug the tap into or onto the tee. Leave the mixture in all year. With the sunlight the mixture will soon break down into oxygen and water. Then prior to next season, mid-late fall, flush with good water and drain. The extended contact will kill most micro organisms and leave the lines clean.
    This works, but most are now doing the dry clean method, run the pump until all sign of moisture is gone and leave the lines plugged at each tap. I used to use the food grade hydrogen peroxide method, but have since been using the dry method (for 6 years now). On that, the sooner you get it dry after the season the better too.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    NE PA (Pocono's)
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    Chemically hydrogen peroxide breaks down into harmless water droplets. Thats why is lines are not flushed well or allowed to air dry you will develop mold where water droplets remain.
    CDL 2x8
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Old Lyme, CT
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    Default

    Yeah, I realize now I should have flushed the tubing right after the end of the season.

    Being new to using tubing, I didn't realize time was of the essence. Live and learn.

    The bad news is the tubing has only been used one season. So I'd hate to have to replace it all.

    The good news is that, so far, I only see the mold spots in about a 100 foot long section. If that is the only section I have to replace, its a quick fix.

    Next year, I may try the dry air clean method and see how that goes.

    Thanks for the advice.

    Mark
    Mason 2x4 w/raised flue pan, 240 gal. sap tank, 80 Reds on 5/16 tubing and Lunchbox releaser/pump, 20 sugars on buckets

  8. #8
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    Jan 2006
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    Oneida NY
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    Yes, just replace that 100'. However, if more spots develop, they will also need to be changed. You may not get more are you may get lots more, only time will tell. Good luck.
    Some wait until the next season and let the sap run a day to flush the lines and dump that sap on the ground. Then they only change any that doesn't come out. The problem with that is that you are dumping what could be the best sap of the season and if it turns out to be a short season you may be dumping a higher % than you really want to.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Old Lyme, CT
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    Default

    Interesting.

    So why would the first sap of a new season remove black mold spots on the inside of tubing?

    Sap is mostly water. If the Hydrogen Peroxide solution didn't remove the mold spots, why would sap?

    Just curious.

    thanks

    Mark
    Mason 2x4 w/raised flue pan, 240 gal. sap tank, 80 Reds on 5/16 tubing and Lunchbox releaser/pump, 20 sugars on buckets

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Brockport, NY
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    253

    Default

    Alright so before you bail on hydrogen peroxide, do you know what percentage hydrogen peroxide solution you put through your lines? Yeah, yeah, I can read the above, but you were writing in approximates I think. I do NOT mean to insult or anything like that, its just that well, it don't matter if you buy magic ju ju juice, if you dilute the juice too much it aint magic no more.
    take care
    mark

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