Timber Framing a Sugar............Shed?

[Zucker Lager]

Hey Sappers:
So I'm heading indoors with my family use hobby sugaring and putting together a "TINY" Sugar Shed 10 by 14. ( I cannot go an inch larger but this will fit my 2 by 3 arch just fine ) I see that most true to proper form timber frames do a mortise and tenon joint at the juncture where the posts meets the sill. One that I saw has the sill boards lap jointed at the corners then a mortise completely through both boards and the post has a long enough tenon to go all the way through the lap joint locking all together. (cross pin to lock it down?) I want to use kiln dried pressure treated for everything with the sill 4 X 4 bolted to a concrete 6 inch slab floor then 4 X 6 posts. It just seems to me that making that joint presents the end of the grain of the post to wick up moisture????? Is there a better way or can I stop the tenon short? or ????? I have made a faux timber frame shed before to just get the looks but now I want to do the framing properly or at least as best as I can. Any ideas / suggestions would be appreciated. Jay

Picture of my faux T. F. Wood shed

Woodshed.jpg

[BAP]

Check out www.forestryforum.com they have a whole forum page on timber framing. There is a lot of knowledgeable people on there who are very willing to answer questions and offer advice.

[sap retreiver]

That's where I learned most everything I needed while doing mine. I have a 2x sill plate that have what you explained. 2x2 tendon that sits on. The sill.

[Zucker Lager]

Check out www.forestryforum.com they have a whole forum page on timber framing. There is a lot of knowledgeable people on there who are very willing to answer questions and offer advice.

Hey thanks BAP I just did register and am waiting for a response / approval from that site. My Uncle was a dairy farmer in East Central Wisconsin and I always was amazed by the timber framing work in his old barn. Then after seeing some of the great builds here on MT I really want to try to give "REAL" timber framing a shot or at least an attempt. Being retired with...........some time on my hands (?) and a small project I guess its doable. Thanks Jay

[djblech]

The book Timber Frame Construction by Jack A. Sobon has the complete instructions for a 12 x 16 shed. I just saw it for $13.52 on Amazon.

[GeneralStark]

"I want to use kiln dried pressure treated for everything with the sill 4 X 4 bolted to a concrete 6 inch slab floor then 4 X 6 posts." I suggest you not use PT at all in a timber frame. It will be very difficult to cut joinery in it being kiln dried. Timber framers generally use green rough-sawn native material for a reason. It is generally a good idea though to place a piece of PT between any post and concrete.

I assume you have some local mills in the area that saw white pine? For a beginner, white pine is the way to go.....

[Zucker Lager]

"I want to use kiln dried pressure treated for everything with the sill 4 X 4 bolted to a concrete 6 inch slab floor then 4 X 6 posts." I suggest you not use PT at all in a timber frame. It will be very difficult to cut joinery in it being kiln dried. Timber framers generally use green rough-sawn native material for a reason. It is generally a good idea though to place a piece of PT between any post and concrete.

I assume you have some local mills in the area that saw white pine? For a beginner, white pine is the way to go.....

Hey General: I got that book that Diblech suggested from my library yesterday and I see that they do use green wood. Maybe I have some 're planning" to do. Yes we have backyard mills in our area that could do that for me. And lots of white pine in my area. I've worked a little green wood but mostly dry lumber and I understand how working green wood would be easier doing this joinery. Guess I was interested in the stability of the kiln dried stuff not thinking about the joinery. Thanks Guys Jay

[GeneralStark]

Hey General: I got that book that Diblech suggested from my library yesterday and I see that they do use green wood. Maybe I have some 're planning" to do. Yes we have backyard mills in our area that could do that for me. And lots of white pine in my area. I've worked a little green wood but mostly dry lumber and I understand how working green wood would be easier doing this joinery. Guess I was interested in the stability of the kiln dried stuff not thinking about the joinery. Thanks Guys Jay

Stability is certainly a consideration in timber selection. Quarter sawn material is obviously best but not realistic in many situations, though for a small building it is easier to achieve. One advantage to pine is it is quite stable once sawn. One of the things any timber frame book should point out is how to look at each timber and determine how to orient it to your advantage. Perfect, straight, square timbers are very rare so how to deal with this is the essential skill of a timber framer. The joinery is certainly a critical skill but the layout is the key.

One other aspect of stability is that by cutting the frame green, and then raising it, as the timbers season and shift, if your joinery is done correctly, the frame will essentially better adapt to those changes over time.

[maple flats]

Having some experience in both construction (part time for 45 years) and saw milling (part time for 12 years) I suggest if available you use eastern hemlock for your post/beam construction. I holds up much better to moisture than pine and is stronger too. However eastern hemlock is not available in all regions. If not available, ask the sawmiller which he suggests for a "small" post and beam sugar house.

[minehart gap]

Just a thought, perhaps there are old farm buildings in your area that are not used any more that are timber frame and you could repurpose for a sugar shack. I am in the process of removing a 14' x 18' hog pen with a 8' x 18' addition (chicken coop) that the family gave to me in exchange for some syrup and to let them see it when it's back up. They are happy that the building will be reused and not just rot. It was originally built in the 1800's. Ironically, it first made the bacon and eggs, now it will make the syrup. Keeping it in the breakfast family.

Timber framing is very precise work. The tighter the joints, the better the building. Not saying that you can't do it, but read as much as you can and look at a lot of photos. The reason for using green wood is so that as it dries, the joints shrink together and become tighter. Personally, I would use harder woods, they are harder to work with but you can make smaller timbers (harder wood is stronger) and they are more forgiving. One slip on a chisel on a pine and you may need to start over with a new timber.