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Thread: Refrigerated tank - Get working or just use ice?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Cornwall, CT
    Posts
    356

    Default Refrigerated tank - Get working or just use ice?

    I bought a 600 gallon insulated and refrigerated tank from a member here and have been planning on getting it up and running again. Plans were to get it up and running again with a new condensing unit but I wondering if it would be good enough to just float 5-gallon blocks of frozen sap. I have two large freezers in my basement for meat and I could easily fit 4 5-gallon buckets of sap in them, freeze them and just float the ice blocks in there the few times a year the temperature gets scary.

    I lost a significant amount of sap this year due to high temps so if you think I'm better of getting this tank to cool again, I'm not opposed to it.

    What say ye?
    1980 - 6 taps, stone fire pit, drain pan evaporator, 1 pint of syrup
    2016 - 55 taps on 3/16 and gravity, new sugar shack, 2x3 Mason XL, 16 gallons of syrup
    2017 - 170 taps on 3/16, 2x4 Mason XL, NextGen RO. 50 gallons of syrup
    2018 - 250+ taps on gravity and buckets, 2x5 Smokey Lake arch and Beaverland pan.
    2019 - 250+ taps on gravity. A few buckets. 35 gallons of syrup.
    2020 - 300+ taps on gravity. 50 gallons of syrup.
    2021 - 280 taps on gravity and 40 buckets. 35 gallons of syrup.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Peoria, IL
    Posts
    634

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    I think both ways sound feasible. I like getting the tank cooling again but it depends on how many days of warm generally come your way. And with 170 taps a few 5 gallon frozen blocks would surely be adequate. Have you gotten a quote for fixing the tank?
    Camp Wokanda
    Peoria Park District

    2023 - 210 on 3/16 shurflo, sap storage shack w/ 1100 gallon tank - 123 gallons
    2022 - 210 on 3/16 shurflo, homemade vac filter & water jacket canner - 104 gallons
    2021 - 215 on 3/16 shurflo, added 2nd membrane to RO - 78 gallons
    2020 - 210 on 3/16 shurflo, upgraded hp pump on RO - 66 gallons
    2019 - 150 on 3/16 shurflo, Deer Run 125 dolly RO - 73 gallons
    2018 - 120 on 3/16 shurflo, 2x6 raised flue w/hood, homemade arch w/ AUF & AOF - 34.5 gallons

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New Hartford, N.Y.
    Posts
    2,091

    Default

    If the maple budget will allow for the service/repair to get the tank up and running, I would recommend that option. Hire a dairy refrigeration service that is experienced in repairs and get their opinion first on the tank. This is what I did and they got one up and running for me this season. We lost sap too over the years and this tank has been a great help to my father and I.

    We did do the frozen 5 gal. block thing also for many years. It helped, a little I guess, but it wasn't enough cold for a tank full.

    Good luck with it!

    Steve
    2014 Upgrades!: 24x40 sugarhouse & 30"x10' Lapierre welded pans, wood fired w/ forced draft, homemade hood & preheater
    400 taps- half on gravity 5/16, half on gravity 3/16
    Airablo R.O. machine - in the house basement!
    Ford F-350 4x4 sap gatherer
    An assortment of barrels, cage tanks & bulk tanks- with one operational for cooling/holding concentrate
    And a few puzzled neighbors...

    http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/t...uckethead1920/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Walpole, NH
    Posts
    1,363

    Default

    Before you go to far with hooking up refrigeration, get a refrigeration guy to pressure test the system to check for leaks. If there is internal leaks in the plates, then it will never hold a charge. Plate leaks are almost impossible to find and repair to hold. They pressure test them with inert gas to see if they will hold refrigeration gas.
    Sugaring for 45+ years
    New Sugarhouse 14'x32'
    New to Me Algier 2'x8' wood fired evaporator
    2022 added a used RB25 RO Bucket
    250 mostly Sugar Maples, 15% Soft Maples. Currently,(110on 3/16" and 125 on Shurflo 4008 vacuum, 15 gravity), (16,000 before being disabled)
    1947 Farmall H and Wagon with gathering tank
    2012 Kubota with forks to move wood around

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Cornwall, CT
    Posts
    356

    Default

    I've done automotive A/C work for 30 years and am familiar with mobile units. I even just bought a new machine for doing the new R1234HF refrigerant for the tune of $6k . Trouble is I don't know much about stationary refrigeration units or how to size this properly. If I can figure out what size condensing unit to get I can probably do the whole thing myself.

    I'd try to find a refrigeration guy that is familiar with dairy tanks but dairy farms are few and far between these days.

    Simple enough to test for leaks. I can close the cut ends on the lines heading into the tank and pull a vacuum on it to find out.

    If floating ice is good enough and I don't need to spend a couple grand getting this running, that would be great. That said, it would be awfully nice to walk over and flick a switch and have this tank cool itself....
    1980 - 6 taps, stone fire pit, drain pan evaporator, 1 pint of syrup
    2016 - 55 taps on 3/16 and gravity, new sugar shack, 2x3 Mason XL, 16 gallons of syrup
    2017 - 170 taps on 3/16, 2x4 Mason XL, NextGen RO. 50 gallons of syrup
    2018 - 250+ taps on gravity and buckets, 2x5 Smokey Lake arch and Beaverland pan.
    2019 - 250+ taps on gravity. A few buckets. 35 gallons of syrup.
    2020 - 300+ taps on gravity. 50 gallons of syrup.
    2021 - 280 taps on gravity and 40 buckets. 35 gallons of syrup.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Walpole, NH
    Posts
    1,363

    Default

    Hanfield Dairy Equipment in North Franklin, CT should be able to help you out.
    Sugaring for 45+ years
    New Sugarhouse 14'x32'
    New to Me Algier 2'x8' wood fired evaporator
    2022 added a used RB25 RO Bucket
    250 mostly Sugar Maples, 15% Soft Maples. Currently,(110on 3/16" and 125 on Shurflo 4008 vacuum, 15 gravity), (16,000 before being disabled)
    1947 Farmall H and Wagon with gathering tank
    2012 Kubota with forks to move wood around

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Knapp, Wis
    Posts
    1,872

    Default

    The problem in keeping bulk tanks going is that if they are not ran and used all the time, it tends to be a money pit of repairs.
    Mark

    Where we made syrup long before the trendies made it popular, now its just another commodity.

    John Deere 4000, 830, and 420 crawler
    1400 taps, 600 gph CDL RO, 4x12 wood-fired Leader, forced air and preheater. 400 gallon Sap-O-Matic vacuum gathering tank, PTO powered. 2500 gallon X truck tank, 17 bulk tanks.
    No cage tanks allowed on this farm!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New Hartford, N.Y.
    Posts
    2,091

    Default

    Again, hire a dairy refrigeration outfit to give you an opinion of yours. I wouldn't spend a couple thousand dollars on it though. The bill for the work done on mine came to a little over $700. Not bad at all considering they tested it, searched for a leak, found a leak, isolated the cooling bank that leaked and charged it with coolant.

    They will either hook the tank up to a vacuum pump and see if it holds or they will pressurize it with nitrogen and see if it holds. That's step one. Since there are fewer and fewer farms left, the dairy refrigeration folks are used to trying to keep old equipment up and running on shoestring budgets. Your repairs, if needed, may be less than what your imagining.

    Keep us posted if you attempt to get it running.

    Steve
    2014 Upgrades!: 24x40 sugarhouse & 30"x10' Lapierre welded pans, wood fired w/ forced draft, homemade hood & preheater
    400 taps- half on gravity 5/16, half on gravity 3/16
    Airablo R.O. machine - in the house basement!
    Ford F-350 4x4 sap gatherer
    An assortment of barrels, cage tanks & bulk tanks- with one operational for cooling/holding concentrate
    And a few puzzled neighbors...

    http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/t...uckethead1920/

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Knapp, Wis
    Posts
    1,872

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucket Head View Post
    Again, hire a dairy refrigeration outfit to give you an opinion of yours. I wouldn't spend a couple thousand dollars on it though. The bill for the work done on mine came to a little over $700. Not bad at all considering they tested it, searched for a leak, found a leak, isolated the cooling bank that leaked and charged it with coolant.
    I was just stating that because they don't have a good track record of sitting unused for 11 months out of the year and then just starting back up like last season was yesterday. I gather that you had only started using one this past season and it cost $700? Don't be surprised if you have yearly trouble getting it cooling each spring if it will be sitting idle all year. Bad things seem to happen to compressors that sit around for long times of inactivity. Just saying.
    Last edited by markcasper; 04-25-2017 at 11:47 PM.
    Mark

    Where we made syrup long before the trendies made it popular, now its just another commodity.

    John Deere 4000, 830, and 420 crawler
    1400 taps, 600 gph CDL RO, 4x12 wood-fired Leader, forced air and preheater. 400 gallon Sap-O-Matic vacuum gathering tank, PTO powered. 2500 gallon X truck tank, 17 bulk tanks.
    No cage tanks allowed on this farm!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    New Hartford, N.Y.
    Posts
    2,091

    Default

    No, I understand. Bad things happen to lawnmowers and snow blowers too after sitting around. Its a chance we take.

    I was willing to give the tank a try and so far I'm glad I did.

    Just like a car- if it starts to nickel and dime you, you make other arrangements.

    Steve
    2014 Upgrades!: 24x40 sugarhouse & 30"x10' Lapierre welded pans, wood fired w/ forced draft, homemade hood & preheater
    400 taps- half on gravity 5/16, half on gravity 3/16
    Airablo R.O. machine - in the house basement!
    Ford F-350 4x4 sap gatherer
    An assortment of barrels, cage tanks & bulk tanks- with one operational for cooling/holding concentrate
    And a few puzzled neighbors...

    http://s606.photobucket.com/albums/t...uckethead1920/

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