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Thread: Home build test run.

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    North Grenville, Ontario
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    969

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    What are your flows rates?
    Does your concentrate flow decrease as you close the concentrate needle valve? Permeate flow should rise slowly as you raise the pressure
    Where is your pressure gauge plumbed into the system. Before the membrane inlet or after? Usually there is a little bit of pressure loss through the membrane.
    I found the best location to put high pressure gauge was before the membrane. Gave me the most accurate pressure rating. Some ROs have them before and after to show pressure loss through membrane.
    Check your procon and see if it has the nut on the side for pressure adjustment. It might be one that has relief so double check that.
    If you can't get over 150 PSI with water then you aren't going to get much higher with sap. I can get up to 250 on permeate if I want to. So something is going on my guess is your procon is set up with relief or the pressure screw needs to be adjusted.
    You don't want to have a full tank of sap and be screwing with the RO to try and get it working and waiting for parts etc
    600 taps on vacuum
    Lapierre mechanical Releaser
    CDL electric releaser
    2.5 x 10 CDL Venturi ( new for the 2024 season )
    Home made modulating auto draw off
    Homemade RO 2 x 4" membranes
    CDL 16 x 16 bottler
    Wesfab 7" filter press
    Delaval 73 vacuum pumps

    12 hives of bees

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    alaska
    Posts
    58

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    Tried it with water again here are my flow rates.
    Pressure.________Perm gpm._______ Conc gpm
    40._____________ .2___________________ 5
    75. ____________ 1.___________________ 3.75
    100.____________ 1.5__________________3.25
    150.____________ 2.5__________________2
    170.____________2.75__________________1.3

    At 170 my Conc valve is nearly closed and if I try to go anymore it deadheads the pump and tries to kill the motor. Its got correct power. But it just seems like the pump doesn't have it in it to turn harder. I'm seeing air in my flowmeter on the Conc side when I'm over 150. I've got no leaks on the suction side in aware of but seems like maybe pump is cavatating.but if it was I cant imagine it stopping the motor. Its got me stumped.
    Last edited by jake1; 04-12-2017 at 04:19 PM.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    North Grenville, Ontario
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    969

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    No, if it builds pressure that quick means the system is full. 40 is a good feed pressure. I use my low pressure pump at 45-50 psi when I wash. I don't even use the hp pump during wash and rinse.

    Have you been able to increase your overall pressure yet?
    600 taps on vacuum
    Lapierre mechanical Releaser
    CDL electric releaser
    2.5 x 10 CDL Venturi ( new for the 2024 season )
    Home made modulating auto draw off
    Homemade RO 2 x 4" membranes
    CDL 16 x 16 bottler
    Wesfab 7" filter press
    Delaval 73 vacuum pumps

    12 hives of bees

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    alaska
    Posts
    58

    Default

    Nope. Won't get over 170. It seems maybe the pump Isn't functioning properly, no adjustment. its new but all systems check out just won't make more pressure. My sap is .8% so I'd be happy with getting it p to 3 or 4% maybe I could still do this at 150 psi? TheTiny air bubbles in he flomete are weird though. They only show up after 150 psi
    Last edited by jake1; 04-12-2017 at 04:52 PM.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    North Grenville, Ontario
    Posts
    969

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    Hmm. Flow rates don't look to bad though.
    Do you have a filter installed to filter the sap? The seals around where the oring is can suck air sometimes. And are you testing it with a filter in installed ?
    600 taps on vacuum
    Lapierre mechanical Releaser
    CDL electric releaser
    2.5 x 10 CDL Venturi ( new for the 2024 season )
    Home made modulating auto draw off
    Homemade RO 2 x 4" membranes
    CDL 16 x 16 bottler
    Wesfab 7" filter press
    Delaval 73 vacuum pumps

    12 hives of bees

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    alaska
    Posts
    58

    Default

    Yeah testing with filter. Getting air must be from somewhere. I've double checked all fittings but can't find where its coming from. Maybe the feed pump. It seems to have air in the line if I just run it alone disconnected from the Ro. When it gets restricted it seems to clear up. I've fixed my fair share of problems but this one is getting to me! Tapping 1000 birch tomorrow!
    Last edited by jake1; 04-12-2017 at 10:06 PM.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    North Grenville, Ontario
    Posts
    969

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    Post some pictures and show as much of the plumbing as you can. I'm sure we can figure it out. If there is a leak you will notice it dripping when the system is fully pressurized. That's how I found my leak on the filter. Might just be a small drip.
    How big is your feed line to your feed pump? If your hp pump is pulling more liquid then your feed pump can supply then it would cause problems.
    If your feed pump is supplying enough pressure and liquid to the hp pump then if your getting 40 psi when it's just runnng alone then when you turn the hp pump on your feed pressure should go up to say 50 psi when the system is running properly and the hp pump is getting enough feed.
    Try that.
    600 taps on vacuum
    Lapierre mechanical Releaser
    CDL electric releaser
    2.5 x 10 CDL Venturi ( new for the 2024 season )
    Home made modulating auto draw off
    Homemade RO 2 x 4" membranes
    CDL 16 x 16 bottler
    Wesfab 7" filter press
    Delaval 73 vacuum pumps

    12 hives of bees

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    alaska
    Posts
    58

    Default

    Can figure pics out, its a 1.25" feed line camlocked to a flotech 1/2 Hp. Then a short run of 1" camlocked to the sap pre filter then fixed 3/4 to the Hp pump. When its at idle with Hp pump running its still getting 50 psi out of the filter. When I'm at 150 its up to 60-65 psi, because flow has slowed so it doesn't seem like a feed issue, unless I'm getting air somehow through the feed. When I shut it down I see there's air in the filter housing, it burps out into the clear hose but all those fittings are tight taped doped with no leaks. Seems like there should be no air anywhere in the system when running properly.
    Last edited by jake1; 04-13-2017 at 11:07 AM.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    UP MI
    Posts
    216

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    Have you tried pushing the bleeder on top of the filter to get all the air out? I have all camlocks on my RO, I found if they have any tension on them they will leak air.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Merrill, WI
    Posts
    61

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    My thoughts are that you may have a bad procon pump. The procon is positive displacement meaning there's not much of a curve to flow vs pressure. Looking at how your combined perm and conc. flow total drops as pressure builds tells me you may have a bad pump as total flow should be 5+ gpm even at 170 psi. I had a bad procon pump this year do the same thing and a new pump cured it. Also, the bad pump made the very slightest rattle noise I never even detected until turning the new pump on and instantly noted a difference.
    Last edited by mkoehler79; 04-13-2017 at 02:29 PM.

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