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Thread: Continuous Flow Pan Issue

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
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    Mapleton Twp, SW Ontario
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    Sap Pan divider placement..
    Looking for some advice....
    Not sure how many dividers to put in my pan...
    Had to widen my flues due to some tooling restrictions and it doesn't work out quite right.
    See attached... do you think 2 dividers or 4 will work better... Pan is 50" long.

    I don't know how it will affect the gradient, etc... but option "A" has about 1740 sq in of surface area on the outside channels and only 975 in the center one...
    I'm thinking this might be a concern??

    Thanks
    pan dividers.JPG
    Last edited by wmick; 03-13-2017 at 09:58 AM.

  2. #22
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    Jan 2006
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    Oneida NY
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    That likely won't hurt it, the movement would simply be a little faster thru the narrower one. On my 3x5 flue pan, there is just one divider and it is open top to bottom at the end about 2" wide. When it gets into my syrup pan, 3x3, I have 4 channels. There are 2 draw offs, one on #1 and one one #4 counting front to back, they flow across the pan. The cut outs at the draw boxes are half circles, 3" wide and 1.5" high. The cut outs at the opposite end of #1 and #4 are 1/4 circles, 2.5" tall and 2.5" wide as is the cut out on the draw off end in the divider between #2 and #3. I reverse flow by closing one 1.5" valve at one end and open a1.5" valve on the other end. Mine has a 1.5" SS tube running from the flue pan, out past the draw boxes, then just out past the draw boxes to the other draw box. Same side draw. I've since seen even better set ups where you can reverse flow but you always draw off from the hottest channel.
    Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
    Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
    Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
    After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
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    Mapleton Twp, SW Ontario
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    Just throwing this back up... Not that I don't trust "maple flats".... but I would, at least, like a second opinion, just to form a consensus, before I weld them in... A or B ?
    Thanks


    Quote Originally Posted by wmick View Post
    Sap Pan divider placement..
    Looking for some advice....
    Not sure how many dividers to put in my pan...
    Had to widen my flues due to some tooling restrictions and it doesn't work out quite right.
    See attached... do you think 2 dividers or 4 will work better... Pan is 50" long.

    I don't know how it will affect the gradient, etc... but option "A" has about 1740 sq in of surface area on the outside channels and only 975 in the center one...
    I'm thinking this might be a concern??

    Thanks
    Attachment 16035

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Potter County, PA
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    815

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    Is this your only pan or do you have a syrup pan to attach to the flue pan?
    2008 4 buckets
    ~
    2016 1300 vac tubing
    18x24 sugar shack
    2x6 Grimm Lightning w/preheater on natural gas
    7" full bank press
    CDL 600 RO
    2000 Sonoma w/ 200gal tank
    2003 Duramax w/ 500 gal tank
    2 sap guzzling kids
    very patient wife!

    Same ol' addiction

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Albion PA
    Posts
    5,099

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    Sap Pan divider placement..
    Looking for some advice....
    Not sure how many dividers to put in my pan...
    Had to widen my flues due to some tooling restrictions and it doesn't work out quite right.
    See attached... do you think 2 dividers or 4 will work better... Pan is 50" long.

    I don't know how it will affect the gradient, etc... but option "A" has about 1740 sq in of surface area on the outside channels and only 975 in the center one...
    I'm thinking this might be a concern??

    Thanks
    Click image for larger version Name: pan dividers.JPG Views: 31 Size: 40.0 KB ID: 16035

    Yes sorry coming in late and not reading the whole post. But you asked. I looked at your A and B proposals. Well this looks a lot like a drop flue pan construction. If this is a flue pan they typically only have a single partition running down the middle. Well thats not going to work well for you (if this is built already?) because you don't have a center top of flue to place a partition. (If not built I would drop one flue center the remaining and add a center partition). The typical partition in a flue pan has a opening only at the rear of the partition. Sap is directed to the front of the rear pan with tubes, one on each side of the central partition. Typically the sap can be turned on or shut off on each tube to allow the sap to flow farther during the boiling process.
    So I would not recommend either one. Guess I would need more info as mentioned on your other pan and whether you are switching sides for draw off??
    I know this was not the answer you wanted.

    BTW it looks like you have the same surface area in both A and B? What am I missing?
    Regards,
    Chris
    Last edited by Sugarmaker; 03-14-2017 at 08:44 PM.
    Casbohm Maple and Honey
    625 roadside taps + Neighbors bring some sap too!
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    12" SIRO Filter Press.
    2015 Ford F250 PSD sap hauler
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    Too many Cub Cadets
    Ford Jubilee and several Allis WD's, and IH tractors
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    www.mapleandhoney.com

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Mapleton Twp, SW Ontario
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    361

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    Quote Originally Posted by mellondome View Post
    Is this your only pan or do you have a syrup pan to attach to the flue pan?

    this is a 24" x 50" sap pan, and then there's a 24"x24" syrup pan as well

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Michigan
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    113

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    Quote Originally Posted by wmick View Post
    Hmmm - Interesting - I keep trying to overcome my lack of knowledge and experience with some backwoods engineering... I would have thought that keeping the opening very shallow (say - 1/2" - bottom half of the sap) would promote the gradient and denser material to transfer to next section before the thinner stuff on top... But like I said... I'm very green... Learn by doing I guess.

    Thanks for your help...
    There is so much vertical agitation that there isn't really a vertical gradient. The only reason you get a good gradient in the pan is by the fact you force it to flow by only adding to one end of a long evaporative flow path. Its good to think, just not to deep.

    PS I have one divider in my home built flue pan. They answered allot of your questions in the build thread.

    http://mapletrader.com/community/sho...flue-pan-build.
    Last edited by Paperman; 03-15-2017 at 08:31 AM.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Frankford, Ontario
    Posts
    1,047

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    Quote Originally Posted by wmick View Post
    Sap Pan divider placement..
    Looking for some advice....
    Not sure how many dividers to put in my pan...
    Had to widen my flues due to some tooling restrictions and it doesn't work out quite right.
    See attached... do you think 2 dividers or 4 will work better... Pan is 50" long.

    I don't know how it will affect the gradient, etc... but option "A" has about 1740 sq in of surface area on the outside channels and only 975 in the center one...
    I'm thinking this might be a concern??

    Thanks
    Attachment 16035

    Think of a divided pan as a long straight path, not multiple parallel paths. It doesn't matter at all what the area of each channel is. What matters is the length (gradient) and width (flow rate) of the channel.

    On a 24" wide pan, 2 dividers are plenty. With an 8" wide channel, you can get a skimmer down in between as needed to skim scum. Any narrower and you are going to find that once you get it boiling hard, there are issues getting sap to flow fast enough from inlet to outlet. When your syrup pan level starts to drop (from good evaporation or drawing off) the lag for the float pan to catch up and replace that sap will be too long and you will end up with burnt pans. 2 will do.
    Big_Eddy
    Eastern Ontario (Quinte)
    20+ years on a 2x3 block arch,
    Homemade 20"x64" drop flue since 2011

    Build a Block Arch
    Build a Flat Pan
    Build a Flue Pan
    Sweetening the Pans
    Build a Bending Brake
    Using a Hydrotherm
    How much Sap to Sweeten?

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Frankford, Ontario
    Posts
    1,047

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paperman View Post
    There is so much vertical agitation that there isn't really a vertical gradient. The only reason you get a good gradient in the pan is by the fact you force it to flow by only adding to one end of a long evaporative flow path. Its good to think, just not to deep.

    PS I have one divider in my home built flue pan. They answered allot of your questions in the build thread.

    http://mapletrader.com/community/sho...flue-pan-build.
    Man - a blast from the past. I remember your build. Still impresses me. Your float box and mine could be twins!
    Big_Eddy
    Eastern Ontario (Quinte)
    20+ years on a 2x3 block arch,
    Homemade 20"x64" drop flue since 2011

    Build a Block Arch
    Build a Flat Pan
    Build a Flue Pan
    Sweetening the Pans
    Build a Bending Brake
    Using a Hydrotherm
    How much Sap to Sweeten?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big_Eddy View Post
    Man - a blast from the past. I remember your build. Still impresses me. Your float box and mine could be twins!
    Well you were the daddy of the idea. Lets just hope that where the DNA sharing stops!!!! Thanks for the compliments, its all about built not bought here if I can swing it. Too much **** fun making stuff to just whip out my wallet. Been 5-6 years of making liquid gold, CHEERS!!!!

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