Zero slope

[randomseeker]

Yes, but I wonder if it would continue to draw once it is flowing. Let's say I started one tree at the far end of the line fairly high, and then ran the rest fairly level. Once the line was full, I wonder if it would run. If so, I could get many more trees on the same line. So instead, in my case, of having the end tap 15 feet up with a 2% gradient to the bottom encompassing about 20 trees, I could have a 1% or even 1/2% grade and pick up 40 to 50 trees. That would also allow me to get farther into my bush.

[DrTimPerkins]

Yes, but I wonder if it would continue to draw once it is flowing.

If you mean you are considering doing this with 3/16" tubing, then I would strongly advise against it. Natural vacuum is generated by sap running downhill (or more appropriately, the weight of a cohesive liquid in a small tube across a difference in height). However the friction in the line on low slopes is enough to overcome the small positive effect you get due to the small height difference, which results in frictional forces being the dominant player in these instances. This friction in the tubing causes a build-up of backpressure and results in reduced sap yield. 3/16" tubing is GREAT on slopes, but BAD on flat land.

In short, you can't get something (natural vacuum) from nothing (no slope).

[Bfouts]

If you mean you are considering doing this with 3/16" tubing, then I would strongly advise against it. Natural vacuum is generated by sap running downhill (or more appropriately, the weight of a cohesive liquid in a small tube across a difference in height). However the friction in the line on low slopes is enough to overcome the small positive effect you get due to the small height difference, which results in frictional forces being the dominant player in these instances. This friction in the tubing causes a build-up of backpressure and results in reduced sap yield. 3/16" tubing is GREAT on slopes, but BAD on flat land.

In short, you can't get something (natural vacuum) from nothing (no slope).

Dr Tim Perkins,

From my original post if I am no in the position to use a pump and I don't have enough slope is my best bet to just run drop lines?


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[motowbrowne]

Dr Tim Perkins,

From my original post if I am no in the position to use a pump and I don't have enough slope is my best bet to just run drop lines?


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I'm not Dr. Tim, but I'll see if I can be of any service.

I don't know what you mean by "just run drop lines". Drop lines are the short pieces of tubing that runs from the tap to the lateral line which runs from tree to tree into a tank or larger line (mainline). You can also use drop lines to run from a tap into a bucket. If you have zero slope and aren't able to run a pump, then it would seem to be that buckets are going to be your only option.

By the way, there's lots of guys running Shurflo diaphragm pumps powered with deep cycle batteries that are either charged with solar panels or swapped out with a fresh battery every couple of days. I know a guy with 185 taps on 5/16 tubing on a Shurflo pulling 18" of vacuum. Yes, he could do a lot better with a bigger pump and a releaser, but for $70, pulling 18" and not having to collect buckets is pretty sweet.

[Bfouts]

I'm not Dr. Tim, but I'll see if I can be of any service.

I don't know what you mean by "just run drop lines". Drop lines are the short pieces of tubing that runs from the tap to the lateral line which runs from tree to tree into a tank or larger line (mainline). You can also use drop lines to run from a tap into a bucket. If you have zero slope and aren't able to run a pump, then it would seem to be that buckets are going to be your only option.

By the way, there's lots of guys running Shurflo diaphragm pumps powered with deep cycle batteries that are either charged with solar panels or swapped out with a fresh battery every couple of days. I know a guy with 185 taps on 5/16 tubing on a Shurflo pulling 18" of vacuum. Yes, he could do a lot better with a bigger pump and a releaser, but for $70, pulling 18" and not having to collect buckets is pretty sweet.

Thank you.

I really want to invest in a pump. But my first major investment I feel I need to do is purchase an arch. My 55 gallon drum just doesn't cut it for what I want to do. I don't want to end up with more sap then what I can boil down.



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[BreezyHill]

But my first major investment I feel I need to do is purchase an arch. My 55 gallon drum just doesn't cut it for what I want to do. I don't want to end up with more sap then what I can boil down.



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That is a smart business move. It really sucks not having time to boil off sap that is in collection tanks!

[DrTimPerkins]

From my original post if I am no in the position to use a pump and I don't have enough slope is my best bet to just run drop lines?

Either droplines (into buckets presumably) or 5/16" lines would work (as long as they are very carefully set up with minimal slope using a level).

[johnpma]

Either droplines (into buckets presumably) or 5/16" lines would work (as long as they are very carefully set up with minimal slope using a level).

Am I understanding this correctly? With 5/16" lines you want minimal slope?

[DrTimPerkins]

Am I understanding this correctly? With 5/16" lines you want minimal slope?

I don't believe you are:

3/16" tubing should ONLY be used where there is adequate slope. It should NOT be used in minimal slope applications.
5/16" tubing can be used with good slope, or with minimal slope, although as slope decreases, good installation (to ensure SOME constant slope) becomes more important as you still need SOME slope to get the lines to run properly.

[johnpma]

I don't believe you are:

3/16" tubing should ONLY be used where there is adequate slope. It should NOT be used in minimal slope applications.
5/16" tubing can be used with good slope, or with minimal slope, although as slope decreases, good installation (to ensure SOME constant slope) becomes more important as you still need SOME slope to get the lines to run properly.

Thank you Sir!! My property has many maples but they are spread out among st the acreage My son and I looked for our best solution to tapping these trees We have many 5/16" tubing systems installed but in small areas throughout We also use buckets in some spots I'm going to expand to a zero slope part of our property which has quite a few sugar maples again spread out so I'm trying to come up with the best scenario for this area