I want to upgrade..Isnt there anyone looking to do the same

[awpoolco]

I started 13 years ago with a 3 x 10 oil evaporator with 470 taps and a 20 x 24 sugar house. I was going to build a 16 x 20 building, then as I visited other sugar operations, I heard the now famous "I should have built it bigger". So I thought 20 x 24 would be plenty big. WRONG!!. I should have gone 24 x 32. I would suggest that if you can afford bigger, then go bigger. Five years from now you will not regret it.

As for the 3 x 10, it was plenty big for 470 taps, no steam away or RO. Boiling time was OK, even at 470 taps. Only produced about 2 gallons of syrup per hour, using 3 - 3 1/2 gallons of oil per gallon of syrup. Then came the small RO, then the steam away, and soon 900 taps and a bigger RO (600). Evaporator size was still OK, sugar house started to grow smaller. Then came the extra 2,100 taps. Added on to the sugar house, bought a 1200 gph RO, but the evaporator size is still fine. My largest collection day this season was 6,200 gallons of sap. RO'ed the sap to 15%, boiled 5 hours 8 minutes and made 118 gal of syrup using a yearly average of .34 gall of oil per gal of syrup.

Summation, in my opinion, go bigger with both the evaporator and the sugar house size.

Joe

wow, you guys are killing me, but i will head the advice. At this point I will have my wallet lead the way. All comments are very appreciated

[abbott]

One thing to keep in mind: any stainless, lead-free evaporator in the size range you are looking at won't lose much if any value in the next 5 years, assuming you treat it well. It won't be a big deal if you have to upgrade a few years down the road... there will almost certainly be a strong market to sell what you've got and upgrade again.

As for your sugarhouse... don't build it too small. Make sure there is enough room for the upgrade if/when it comes. If money is limited, my advice is to spend it on the sugarhouse fist. Then on the tubing/vacuum system if you can easily sell excess sap. But if you find a deal on an evap that's a bit bigger than you were imagining... go for it.

People keep talking about 2 gpt sap in a day on vacuum. I've never seen it happen - only occasionally 1.5 gpt. And I average over .4 gpt syrup (I made 435 gallons syrup on 860 taps this year, only hitting 1000 gallons of sap in a day once.) It makes more sense to me to look at it this way: How much sap are you hoping to boil in a season? How long do you want to spend boiling in a season? Now divide the two and you come up with the rate at which you need to boil it off.

I have a 40"x10' evap and I boil at 80 gph (no RO.) So I'm looking at a max of 20,000 gallons of sap, or 250 hours boiling. Thats 50 hours a week for 5 weeks. I can handle that. But my sap all comes right to the saphouse. I don't plan on adding many more taps until I upgrade my evaporator... and add on to my saphouse (currently 16x20 with long overhangs for wood/sap storage.)

[awpoolco]

One thing to keep in mind: any stainless, lead-free evaporator in the size range you are looking at won't lose much if any value in the next 5 years, assuming you treat it well. It won't be a big deal if you have to upgrade a few years down the road... there will almost certainly be a strong market to sell what you've got and upgrade again.

As for your sugarhouse... don't build it too small. Make sure there is enough room for the upgrade if/when it comes. If money is limited, my advice is to spend it on the sugarhouse fist. Then on the tubing/vacuum system if you can easily sell excess sap. But if you find a deal on an evap that's a bit bigger than you were imagining... go for it.

People keep talking about 2 gpt sap in a day on vacuum. I've never seen it happen - only occasionally 1.5 gpt. And I average over .4 gpt syrup (I made 435 gallons syrup on 860 taps this year, only hitting 1000 gallons of sap in a day once.) It makes more sense to me to look at it this way: How much sap are you hoping to boil in a season? How long do you want to spend boiling in a season? Now divide the two and you come up with the rate at which you need to boil it off.

I have a 40"x10' evap and I boil at 80 gph (no RO.) So I'm looking at a max of 20,000 gallons of sap, or 250 hours boiling. Thats 50 hours a week for 5 weeks. I can handle that. But my sap all comes right to the saphouse. I don't plan on adding many more taps until I upgrade my evaporator... and add on to my saphouse (currently 16x20 with long overhangs for wood/sap storage.)

That makes perfect sense. After digesting all the info, I have decided to first start with the shack and misc. Then take what I can afford and find as a good deal. Placement of my shack in relation to lines and whether I can get them to reach feasibly. All great stuff guys. Shack plans next; recommendations to include???

[Tater]

Abbott, I have zero experience with vacuum, but I have had sap saks running over in 36 hours (about 3 gallons). Granted, that's an unusually good run, but it did happen on my last run this season, after some of my taps were ~6 weeks old. Not all the taps were still running that well, but earlier in the season it was definitely possible to get an average of 2 gpt with sap saks in a 24 hour period during a good run.

[motowbrowne]

That makes perfect sense. After digesting all the info, I have decided to first start with the shack and misc. Then take what I can afford and find as a good deal. Placement of my shack in relation to lines and whether I can get them to reach feasibly. All great stuff guys. Shack plans next; recommendations to include???

That's a good call. I wasn't trying to tell you earlier not to start with a 2x6. If the money is there for the long-term rig, go for it. Otherwise, start with what you can afford, just don't build yourself into a corner. When you plan for a 2x6, think about how a 3x12 will fit in there, or else, where you're going to put an RO. If you do anticipate 800 taps, you'll need one or both.

I'm going to have to do major modifications to fit my new rig into my shack. A little forethought could have prevented some of them.

[abbott]

Abbott, I have zero experience with vacuum, but I have had sap saks running over in 36 hours (about 3 gallons). Granted, that's an unusually good run, but it did happen on my last run this season, after some of my taps were ~6 weeks old. Not all the taps were still running that well, but earlier in the season it was definitely possible to get an average of 2 gpt with sap saks in a 24 hour period during a good run.

Yeah, I've got a yard tree that can crank out 2-3 gallons of 4% sap in a day. And my 7 yard trees can average over 2 gpt with 2 taps apiece. But it just never happens in my woods. Vacuum gets you the most on days when there was no freeze overnight and the gravity taps have slowed or stopped. I keep thinking maybe that monster run will come, but it never has.

Assuming you were boiling at about 40:1 to make your 13 gallons of syrup this year you got 12 gpt total on the year. If you had even one day of 2gpt+, then that was a sixth of your sap for the entire year. My best day got me a sixteenth of my sap for the year. But with 35+ days of collecting, it adds up!

But that's not the real point anyway. The point is, don't think that you need to have an evaporator that can dispense with two gallons of sap per tap in one day of boiling. Unless you have treezillas that can crank out 2gpt day after day and you get 40 gallons of sap per tap in a season. Even if you get a couple days with lots of sap, it makes more sense (in my mind at least) to look at your expectation for the entire season and base your evaporator size on that. Sure there may be a couple of late nights along the way, but isn't that what maple season is all about?

Sorry for rambling and raving.

[wurmdert]

I agree Abbott, Ive had some good runs this season and the best was 1.6 gpt. I dont think my woods could give much more than that in 24 hrs. Individual taps yes, the woods as a whole no way.

[Tater]

It all comes down to your individual situation. I work 40 hours per week 45 minutes from home. I collect sap 30 minutes from home (different direction than work). I don't have a lot of time to boil, or much room to store sap. If you have more time to boil or room to store some sap during abnormally good runs, that obviously makes a difference. But right now my number of taps is limited by my evaporator size, so I'd tend to go oversize rather than under (plan ahead, ya know).

My figure of 2 gpt was intended to be a theoretical max anyway, just to show that 800 taps on a 2x6 is doable. Mike pointed out he's got 830 taps on a 2x6 but wishes he had more evaporator. If he finds a bargain 2x6, I'd recommend getting it, but if buying new with potential for 800 taps I'd be looking at a 2x8 and making plans for an RO.

[awpoolco]

It all comes down to your individual situation. I work 40 hours per week 45 minutes from home. I collect sap 30 minutes from home (different direction than work). I don't have a lot of time to boil, or much room to store sap. If you have more time to boil or room to store some sap during abnormally good runs, that obviously makes a difference. But right now my number of taps is limited by my evaporator size, so I'd tend to go oversize rather than under (plan ahead, ya know).

My figure of 2 gpt was intended to be a theoretical max anyway, just to show that 800 taps on a 2x6 is doable. Mike pointed out he's got 830 taps on a 2x6 but wishes he had more evaporator. If he finds a bargain 2x6, I'd recommend getting it, but if buying new with potential for 800 taps I'd be looking at a 2x8 and making plans for an RO.

Don't anyone of you apologize for anything. This is what I was hoping for, ideas of what has happened with each of you along the way. This is going to be a retirement thing for a little extra income, and to keep me active. I am a Phys Ed. teacher, age 50, avid into the outdoors and this gives me the chance to continue it. Going to build the shack first and make sure there is room to expand easily. Laying out my forrest to pipe it down as close as I can to the house is my plan. I don't want to haul sap in, just stay right here on the 40 acre homestead and get old.

[Big_Eddy]

When building your sugar house, remember that if you plan ahead it can be easy to add some additional length in the future, but it's much harder to make an existing structure wider later.