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Thread: hodorskib's Small Scale RO Build

  1. #191
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Westford, VT
    Posts
    21

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    Many thanks to Hodorskib and others for sharing their experience with small scale RO builds. Last year I used the RO Bucket (RB-10) with Aquatech 8855 and 2x400 gpd membranes in parallel with pretty good results overall. This year I decided to disassemble the Bucket and mount it to a board to ease access to the RO components. I often found myself chasing a small air leak in the tubing connections and had difficulty getting to the tubing connections to ensure they were fully seated. I'm hoping that the board mount will provide easier locating and fixing of leaks, or, even more so, I'm hoping I'll be able to assemble the tubing connections properly to prevent leaks. I also will add a another membrane to make it a 3x400 gpd kit and plumb it in series like the Hodorskib Build.

    Quote Originally Posted by hodorskib View Post
    I have successfully run 3 x 400 gpd membranes with my pump and 6 x 150 gpd beyond that I have found there is no difference and the last membranes do nothing.
    Hodorskib: I recall you indicated in a posting quite a ways back that you had planned to share the results of the 3 x 400 gpd system. I've searched these postings and your website but could not find it. I'm curious how the 3 x 400 gpd system performed compared to the 6 x 150 gpd.
    2014-2017 - 3 taps - open fire boil
    2018 - 33 taps on 3/16 20" Hg, 3 buckets, barrel evaporator, RO Bucket
    2019 - 41 taps on 3/16" 20" Hg, 4 buckets, barrel evaporator, RO-Bucket Kit (3x400 gpd)

  2. #192
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Oakville, CT
    Posts
    244

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    MDR - sorry never posted the results from running both systems last year. The 6 x 150gpd system worked flawlessly I put about 2,000 gallons of sap through it over the course of the season. My sap was running around 1.3% and I was concentrating to around 7.5% and was processing about about 9-10 gallons per hour through the system. I was able to remove 84% of the water in a single pass. This was also the first year I was using RO soap instead of Hydrogen Peroxide. I did a wash after each run and found that there was no loss in performance over the entire season. If your sap is more around 2% I would only go with 5 membranes. My system with 3 x 400gpd membranes did not do as well. I had it plumbed with 3/8" tubing throughout and although was able to concentrate to the same level 7.5% but the rate of process was not as fast with only about 7-8 gallons per hour. However, I lent it to a friend who was swimming in sap and had him set it so that it was a 50 - 50 permeate to concentrate. This worked extremely well and allowed him to process between 250-300 gallons per day which was perfect for his needs. I think the larger membranes need a higher flow. As for mounting your system to a board it will make things a lot easier to work on. Last year I put mine together on casters which still allowed for easy access but took up less area and made it easier to move around. I will be posting pictures to my website sometime next week after I take it out of storage.
    https://sites.google.com/view/mattat...aplesyrup/home
    2' x 3' backyard evaporator with homemade steam hood
    34 gallons produced in 2018
    100 taps (90 on 3/16" tubing)
    Homemade RO added in 2012
    https://sites.google.com/view/mattat...aplesyrup/home

  3. #193
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    145

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    Quick question. Everything seems to be running good. Curious on what my pressure gauge should be reading. It’s currently at 80psi. Its my first time running this setup and I followed the plans to a T. Starting at 1%....coming out at 4%. Thanks in advance for any help.

  4. #194
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    OH
    Posts
    63

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbedilion View Post
    Quick question. Everything seems to be running good. Curious on what my pressure gauge should be reading. It’s currently at 80psi. Its my first time running this setup and I followed the plans to a T. Starting at 1%....coming out at 4%. Thanks in advance for any help.
    Mine usually runs around 85psi. That's with sap that is about 40*F and the needle valve set to give me 50% permeate and 50% concentrated sap. I usually have 2% going in and 4% coming out.
    The pressure it runs at will change based on the temperature of your sap. If I remember from last year, warmer sap run at a lower pressure and colder sap ran higher than 85%.
    2019: 31 taps on silvers. Back porch gas cook top with 2 full size steam table pans. An amazing 14.9 gallons in my backyard!
    2018: 22 taps on 9 silvers. Propane turkey fryer and full size steam table pan on electric stove. I made 4.25 gallons in my backyard!

  5. #195
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    145

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    Thanks jdircksen! Ran 50 gallons of 1% down to about 12-13 gallons of 4%. I'm now ready for some bigger runs next week.

  6. #196
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    OH
    Posts
    63

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    how'd you get the 75% reduction? Do you recirculate the concentrated sap as it comes out or just have your needle valve set to give 75% permeate and 25% concentrate? how long does it take?

    I did about 45 gallons of sap down to 22 gallons. it was 2% -> 4%. that took about 5.5 hours in a single pass. I have 3 of the 150gpd membranes.
    2019: 31 taps on silvers. Back porch gas cook top with 2 full size steam table pans. An amazing 14.9 gallons in my backyard!
    2018: 22 taps on 9 silvers. Propane turkey fryer and full size steam table pan on electric stove. I made 4.25 gallons in my backyard!

  7. #197
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    OH
    Posts
    63

    Default

    and you might want to see if your pump is adjustable. I just saw this on hodorskib's website:
    It is connected to an Aquatech 8800 booster pump. This pump is designed to boost and maintain 100 psi of pressure with little or no feed pressure. However, depending on what membranes you use you can actually increase the pump to match the maximum levels for your membranes. To do this you will want to rotate the small screw on the front of the pump clockwise up to one rotation. I found one full rotation put me slightly above 125 psi so I went with a little over a 3/4 turn and that put me just below 125ps.
    2019: 31 taps on silvers. Back porch gas cook top with 2 full size steam table pans. An amazing 14.9 gallons in my backyard!
    2018: 22 taps on 9 silvers. Propane turkey fryer and full size steam table pan on electric stove. I made 4.25 gallons in my backyard!

  8. #198
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jdircksen View Post
    how'd you get the 75% reduction? Do you recirculate the concentrated sap as it comes out or just have your needle valve set to give 75% permeate and 25% concentrate? how long does it take?

    I did about 45 gallons of sap down to 22 gallons. it was 2% -> 4%. that took about 5.5 hours in a single pass. I have 3 of the 150gpd membranes.
    I don't know. haha. My sap is seriously 1% or less. I have 4 of the 150gpd membranes. I was running at 85psi but it wasn't a 50/50 output. More like the 75%/25% you noted. I forgot to time how long it took...maybe 4-5 hours. Last season I made 10 gallons from 1% sap.....that's a LOT of driveway boiling time.

  9. #199
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Westford, VT
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hodorskib View Post
    MDR - sorry never posted the results from running both systems last year. The 6 x 150gpd system worked flawlessly I put about 2,000 gallons of sap through it over the course of the season. My sap was running around 1.3% and I was concentrating to around 7.5% and was processing about about 9-10 gallons per hour through the system. I was able to remove 84% of the water in a single pass. This was also the first year I was using RO soap instead of Hydrogen Peroxide. I did a wash after each run and found that there was no loss in performance over the entire season. If your sap is more around 2% I would only go with 5 membranes. My system with 3 x 400gpd membranes did not do as well. I had it plumbed with 3/8" tubing throughout and although was able to concentrate to the same level 7.5% but the rate of process was not as fast with only about 7-8 gallons per hour. However, I lent it to a friend who was swimming in sap and had him set it so that it was a 50 - 50 permeate to concentrate. This worked extremely well and allowed him to process between 250-300 gallons per day which was perfect for his needs. I think the larger membranes need a higher flow. As for mounting your system to a board it will make things a lot easier to work on. Last year I put mine together on casters which still allowed for easy access but took up less area and made it easier to move around. I will be posting pictures to my website sometime next week after I take it out of storage.
    https://sites.google.com/view/mattat...aplesyrup/home
    Thanks for replying.
    2014-2017 - 3 taps - open fire boil
    2018 - 33 taps on 3/16 20" Hg, 3 buckets, barrel evaporator, RO Bucket
    2019 - 41 taps on 3/16" 20" Hg, 4 buckets, barrel evaporator, RO-Bucket Kit (3x400 gpd)

  10. #200
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    OH
    Posts
    63

    Default

    Question...
    When I'm doing the soap wash, how should I have the needle valve set? wide open or restricted like when I'm processing sap.
    thank you
    2019: 31 taps on silvers. Back porch gas cook top with 2 full size steam table pans. An amazing 14.9 gallons in my backyard!
    2018: 22 taps on 9 silvers. Propane turkey fryer and full size steam table pan on electric stove. I made 4.25 gallons in my backyard!

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