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Thread: hodorskib's Small Scale RO Build

  1. #181
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    17

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    The RO Bucket has used two different membranes over the last two years. We were using the membrane solutions ones but have since sourced a higher quality, tighter wound 400gpd membrane (if you look at the ends of the two there is a clear difference). The newer ones we have sourced have a pH rating from 2-12 (most TFW membranes will). In addition to their pH parameters, they recommend flushing with 1% NaOH solution/.25% sodium dodecyl sulfate (which is what we make up in our preservative vials). You would then neutralize that solution if necessary to get the desired pH range (I have made a lot of solutions with a lot of different water sources and have never gotten over a pH of 12).

    Msbouchard - do you have the "Jozzon" membranes or the older ones?

  2. #182
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Oakville, CT
    Posts
    244

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    jdickson - you can use ph strips or pick up a ph meter I found one on Amazon.com for under 15 dollars:
    https://www.amazon.com/Drinking-Aqua...ph+meter&psc=1
    works well and as for the type of soap you use as already said it is about the ph level. I chose CDL because it was organic, reasonable priced and I was able to get it locally. It is basically food grade lye. Make sure you use warm permeate or chlorine free water (a tip from a friend who services aquariums - if you use chlorinated water, like I do, fill up a barrel and let it sit for a few days the chlorine will dissipate). Then add a teaspoon at a time until you reach the desired level. Also, take a measurement of the ph of the permeate or water you will be using it will be helpful when rinsing/ flushing your membranes after a soap wash. When the ph levels return to normal you know that all the soap has been removed - for me it takes about 30-40 minutes but do an hour flush to be safe.
    2' x 3' backyard evaporator with homemade steam hood
    34 gallons produced in 2018
    100 taps (90 on 3/16" tubing)
    Homemade RO added in 2012
    https://sites.google.com/view/mattat...aplesyrup/home

  3. #183
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    40

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    Quote Originally Posted by carls47807 View Post
    Msbouchard - do you have the "Jozzon" membranes or the older ones?
    Hi Carl, they are the Jozzon membranes. I did add a 4th membrane for 2019 which is membrane solutions, but didn't pick up on the winding being different since the others are still in their storage vessel.
    Season Totals
    • 2019 - 24 Taps / TBD
    • 2018 - 24 Taps / 20 Gal. Syrup
    • 2017 - 18 Taps + 7 Taps added Mid-Season / 15 Gal. Syrup
    • 2016 - 18 Taps added Mid-Season / 5.25 Gal. Syrup
    Current Equipment
    • Off-grid solar/battery powered home-built RO and "Sugar House"
    • (2) 34x17x6 Pans on custom built 250K BTU propane evaporators and slow finished on a Wood Stove

  4. #184
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    North Shore Lake Lemon, Monroe County
    Posts
    119

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    In the interest of not posting repetitive questions I just re-scanned this entire thread, and I don't think I've seen a question like this addressed. I built a copy of your initial system a couple of years ago, with an aquatec 8855 pump, 4 150 membranes, and then bought 4 250 membranes last year when I saw them for a good price, but didn't use them as the season was about over. I just priced out a new aquatec 8855 pump, pressure gauge, and all the rest to create 2 systems and it comes to about $215. I see I can buy a procon 15 - 125 gph pump with motor with up to 175 psi for $180. Question...should I skip the 2 system setup and go with the procon? Will it give adequate flow and pressure for 8 membranes at the above capacity? I have to admit there was one flow rate/recovery chart that went beyond my paygrade, so if that explained it I apologize. Just wondering what the procon can run with 4 150 and 4 gpd membranes - all of them, or do I need to scale back (or can I scale up??) Thanks... you and all the contributors here have saved so many people so many hours by sharing what you've done with us.
    2014 - 8 taps, turkey fryer, 130 gallons sap, just under 2.5 gallons syrup.
    2015 - 50 taps and counting.
    2016 - 60 taps on 3/16 and a Bill Mason evaporator on order.
    2017 - 115 taps on 3/16, homemade r/o.
    2018 - 150 taps on 3/16, r/o a big help, but lots of leaks killing yield.
    2019 - sticking with 150 taps or maybe less, focusing on good vacuum and less waste to increase yield. Doubling up my r/o, and made a vacuum filter that looks promising.

  5. #185
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Oakville, CT
    Posts
    244

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    I know someone who is using a procon pump with 4 - 400gpd membranes and it can easily handle more - depends on what model procon pump and what sized motor. However, if you are going to that size pump you might want to just go with a 4 x 40" membrane and be done playing with these small residential membranes and would be more sized to the number of taps you have. Comes down to $ and the fact you already have 8 membranes.
    2' x 3' backyard evaporator with homemade steam hood
    34 gallons produced in 2018
    100 taps (90 on 3/16" tubing)
    Homemade RO added in 2012
    https://sites.google.com/view/mattat...aplesyrup/home

  6. #186
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    North Shore Lake Lemon, Monroe County
    Posts
    119

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    Thanks much...that answered my question about capacity of the procon. I'll do some pricing comparison. Thanks again!
    2014 - 8 taps, turkey fryer, 130 gallons sap, just under 2.5 gallons syrup.
    2015 - 50 taps and counting.
    2016 - 60 taps on 3/16 and a Bill Mason evaporator on order.
    2017 - 115 taps on 3/16, homemade r/o.
    2018 - 150 taps on 3/16, r/o a big help, but lots of leaks killing yield.
    2019 - sticking with 150 taps or maybe less, focusing on good vacuum and less waste to increase yield. Doubling up my r/o, and made a vacuum filter that looks promising.

  7. #187
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    mi
    Posts
    106

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    andrew i am with hobs the procon pump will handle what you have and more if you can return the filters then maybe move to the 4x40 (filter and vessel about 400$) if not run all the filters you have and when you need to replace them go to the 4x40 you will probably need some flow gauges and a few misc items you may or may not have with the smaller setup

  8. #188
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    North Shore Lake Lemon, Monroe County
    Posts
    119

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalhead62 View Post
    andrew i am with hobs the procon pump will handle what you have and more if you can return the filters then maybe move to the 4x40 (filter and vessel about 400$) if not run all the filters you have and when you need to replace them go to the 4x40 you will probably need some flow gauges and a few misc items you may or may not have with the smaller setup
    Metalhead, you are both right, but I did a pre rinse through the new membranes thinking I would need them so I can't return. And to complicate things, I JUST got an out of the blue purchase offer on my 12 acres of maples on the lake (although they love the syrup and say I can keep tapping...but who knows).


    That has me thinking to max out what I have until I know how things go with the buyers before upgrading.

    So another question to you patient folks...

    What is the capacity of my current 8855 aquatec pump, if I use a well head pump in front of it using any mix of my 4 150 gpd and 4 250 gpd membranes? That would just leave me needing to buy some new cartridges and I'd be set.

    Thanks in advance for your help!
    2014 - 8 taps, turkey fryer, 130 gallons sap, just under 2.5 gallons syrup.
    2015 - 50 taps and counting.
    2016 - 60 taps on 3/16 and a Bill Mason evaporator on order.
    2017 - 115 taps on 3/16, homemade r/o.
    2018 - 150 taps on 3/16, r/o a big help, but lots of leaks killing yield.
    2019 - sticking with 150 taps or maybe less, focusing on good vacuum and less waste to increase yield. Doubling up my r/o, and made a vacuum filter that looks promising.

  9. #189
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Oakville, CT
    Posts
    244

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    Andrew: The Aquatech pump is 1200 gallons per day (however, that is with no back pressure just free flowing). I have successfully run 3 x 400 gpd membranes with my pump and 6 x 150 gpd beyond that I have found there is no difference and the last membranes do nothing. Hope this helps.
    2' x 3' backyard evaporator with homemade steam hood
    34 gallons produced in 2018
    100 taps (90 on 3/16" tubing)
    Homemade RO added in 2012
    https://sites.google.com/view/mattat...aplesyrup/home

  10. #190
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    North Shore Lake Lemon, Monroe County
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hodorskib View Post
    Andrew: The Aquatech pump is 1200 gallons per day (however, that is with no back pressure just free flowing). I have successfully run 3 x 400 gpd membranes with my pump and 6 x 150 gpd beyond that I have found there is no difference and the last membranes do nothing. Hope this helps.
    Exactly what I was looking for...thanks again!
    2014 - 8 taps, turkey fryer, 130 gallons sap, just under 2.5 gallons syrup.
    2015 - 50 taps and counting.
    2016 - 60 taps on 3/16 and a Bill Mason evaporator on order.
    2017 - 115 taps on 3/16, homemade r/o.
    2018 - 150 taps on 3/16, r/o a big help, but lots of leaks killing yield.
    2019 - sticking with 150 taps or maybe less, focusing on good vacuum and less waste to increase yield. Doubling up my r/o, and made a vacuum filter that looks promising.

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