More Global warming discussion

[TapME]

Global warming or pocket lining, only and issue to take the pulic off the real problem ,them making more money. What stocks or companies do they have holdings in? Sure did spark a town meeting disscusion on this subject. Global warming bunk between the ears I say. Do as I say not as I do, inventor of the internet, sucessor to the oral office, and more that I can't think of right now.

[markcasper]

In all reality, the bugs will put us out of a job faster than gloabal warming. Course theres those that will say the invasive species have been caused by "global warming".

I read about Ann Bancroft having to cancel out a trip across the Arctic....she and a partner got frostbite.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I was thinking this morning that the global warming thing has quited down with the very cold temps the past 2 months.

[markcasper]

We had a killing frost here about 2 weeks ago, September 13th. I got home from work and it was 26 degrees. Watermelons, tomatoes, everything was dead. Thats a full week and then some early for my area. I don't remember the last time that it froze and killed this early.
The next day, the big freeze made the front page and the newspaper was out soliciting comments, asking people how it affected them.
One of the questions that the reporter asked was: "Do you feel that the abnormal cold we have experienced is in any way related to global warming."

I was shocked that 3 of the 5 people interviewed responded yes to that question. What has happened to the people in this country? Now I am not surprised why there are those that would INVITE a terrorist in to the old USA as a guest speaker.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

From reading the article in the Sept/Oct issue of the maple news on global warming, evidently this happened back in the 1970's. It is all part of the liberal agenda. The liberals want everyone to be reliant on the government and to make government huge. The want us to be so reliant on the government we are like a baby in a diaper. The more reliant we get, the more we are headed towards socialism. Just wait until election year next year. This is also a big plot to help the liberal party in election year next year. You will hear some of the biggest lies and promises about how they will stop all this and clean up what is causing it.

Back to this article in the Maple News, he had researched temps in the area of VT I think that was supposed to have risen like 4.4 degrees in the last 30+ years and found that the temps had only risen .2. A lot of the other areas he had researched had actually dropped in temps more than .2 degrees. It is funny how it works. It is part of the liberal agenda and the news media is behind almost completed committed to the liberal agenda and none of this garbage is ever refuted, just reported as the truth. Let someone on the other side try to refute it, and they won't even get coverage.

I don't remember all this happening in the 70's, but I do remember the big ozone kick in the 80's and early 90's. I agree we do too much to pollute our atmosphere and earth, but we have made great strides the past few years and think we should continue to but it is the moose gas and the underdeveloped countries that are causing the bulk of the problems with no controls. Kill all the moose, deer, elk and larger game and that will correct most all of our problems and then kill all the conservatives as you know they produce more methane than a liberal and all the problems with be solved.

I know it has been brought up to stay off of politics, but this is going to affect every aspect of our life and especially maple syrup if this snowball keeps getting bigger, just wait and see. It may come to the fact that evaporators do too much to pollute the enviroment since we don't have pollution controls on it and they will be banned or we will have to invest in expensive equipment. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it could happen.

[TapME]

Our last frost was May 16 here, and our first fall frost was Aug 20th. have the gov't change it for me. thanks

[Toblerone]

I guess I am one of the liberals. Remember that GW is all about climate not weather in any one year and I do believe the case can be made for an overall trend. Take a look over at www.realclimate.com where real, actual, living, breathing liberal scientists discuss the issues.

Having said that, however, I don't believe there is one darn thing we can do about it. The biggest problem facing us, as a society, is that of Peak Oil. If you've not heard of it, jump over to http://lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/ or http://www.theoildrum.com. You will find that there is no liberal agenda there. Most people posting there are long time oil industry guys. They know what they're talking about.

Many people there think that we've just past the point where the production of oil in the world will decrease every year until it is gone (or is at least too expensive to retrieve) with coal and natural gas peaking soon after. With demand ever increasing, the only outcome will be major price hikes. My prediction: gasoline will be $10/gallon within the next 5-10 years.

In relation to Global Warming, does anyone really think that we are going to let that precious energy stay in the ground? No way. People don't understand just how powerful this stuff is. It has easily 10 times more net energy than any so-called alternative fuels. We are going to dig/pump all of it up that we can and we are going to burn it until it's gone. All of that CO2 will go into the atmosphere. (Sequestration is a pipe dream IMHO). If you believe in GW, my suggestion would be make sure you are not near the coast.

I think most of you maple guys/gals are in the best position to mitigate Peak Oil. Many have arable land, fuel, potable water, all on site. You're pretty self sufficient. I wonder how I'm going to make it in the city. I really wonder how folks in the burbs are going to handle it.

Sorry for the rant.
Good luck to all,
Dave

[markcasper]

The latest thing in my area is to blame ethanol for everything. From higher milk and food prices to the increased license plate fee. Its all b/c of ethanol don't you know.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Dave,

You are correct in your assumptions and I think most would probably agree with you. What I mean when I refer to the liberal agenda is people like Al Gore that are pushing this GW stuff but yet has a $ 4,000 to $ 5,000 monthly electrical bill to heat his mansion and when questioned about it, he has no answer. He isn't that concerned about it, just making a name for himself and pushing the liberal agenda. If he was really that concerned about it, he would start with taking care of his excess waste that is contributing to GW.

We could really help ourselves by eliminating all the billions of dollars we are paying farmers for CRP programs and put them all back in business making products to produce our own fuel for electricy and power our vehicles. We are smart and we can do it. Problem is, government wants everyone reliant on the government.

Just think of all the millions of jobs this would create and we could start exporting it. Economy would suddenly have a big surplus from all the extra hundreds of billions or more in extra income generated every year and the unemployment rate would be like .8%. They could raise corn and generate power from corn. It has tons of btu's and would burn much cleaner than fossil fuels.

[Toblerone]

Brandon, I agree Al Gore should have done more to make sure his house was in order before calling others to action. But, also, lets not forget that Al Gore is not a regular guy. He's a former vice president, and presidential candidate. I'm sure he (and his wife) have offices at the house, and a security staff to boot. I work from home and my electric bills show it. Also, at least he is buying so-called green energy credits from the power company. Whether you think it's a good idea or not, at least he is sticking to his convictions in some way. But, I must say, I thought the heated swimming pool I read about seemed a little excessive. Nobody is perfect. You are bound to find some hypocrisy if you look hard enough. I think if you compare what he had done to advance his movement (whatever you may think of it) to what he has spent (hypocrisy-wise), I'd say he's done a net positive.

Regarding Ethanol, I think it (corn-based Ethanol) is largely a red herring for energy independence. It's largely a political tool for politicians to support farmers to get votes... not that I don't think we shouldn't take care of our farmers. They should be paid a fair price. But, once oil starts to become scarce, there is simply no way for Ethanol to fill the gap. Even the most generous estimations of EROEI (Energy Returned on Energy Invested) for Ethanol put it at 2. Meaning 1 unit of energy is consumed to produce 2 units of energy. Keep in mind the EROEI of petroleum is at least 10. It may help wean us off of petroleum until another vehicle fuel can be found/perfected (e.g. electric batteries), but it will never be our main fuel.

Anyway, if we were serious about ethanol, we'd be growing or purchasing sugar cane. EROEI estimates on ethanol from sugar cane put it at least 4, probably as high as 8. But then again, there isn't a large voter base growing sugar cane. Perhaps Sorghum could be grown in the US.

Consider this point. In terms of efficiency in converting sunlight to energy, corn is less than 10% (around 7 or 8%, IIRC) efficient. Even basic, been-around-forever, solar cells are more efficient than that.

What we need to do is build large concentrating solar power plants in the southwest, then build a large HVDC transmission system to get the power to where it is needed. See http://www.nrel.gov/csp/ ... But this will never happen as long as we have cheap oil and coal now. That's just a fact. I mean why should we spend all this money on expensive electricity just so some other country can burn the cheap oil/coal/ng instead? This is why I don't think conservation will do a thing... it just enables others to use more. Again, it's not like it will be left in the ground. Somebody is going to burn it.

Insofar as the US becoming a net exporter of energy (Ethanol, electricity, etc..), I don't foresee that ever happening. I think we are going to have enough trouble keeping up with our own demand.

Remember to plant more than just maple trees. You might want some high-BTU hardwoods in there too so you (or your kids at least) can keep the evaporator fired for years to come.

Take care.