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Thread: condensation in busch pumps

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    poultney vermont
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    610

    Default condensation in busch pumps

    anyone else have a problem with condensation in their busch pump oil chamber?? seems to be an issue for the pump that is outside in cold, im trying blueboard but wondering if any others experiencing this. all I know is its not a nice thing to see!!
    18x30 sugarshack
    3500 taps high vac
    3x10 inferno with steampan
    7'' wes fab filter press
    D&G 1000
    300&400 gal stainless concentrate tank
    1-2500
    3-1550's
    4-275's
    more taps to come in '19

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    Fulton, NY
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    Default

    I've always had mine in an insulated building with the electric releaser, so no, obviously not a problem for me. But I did hear of one producer having problems with the pump kicking out, not running, something. Turned out he did not have it heated. When inquiry was made, they were told "it needs to be in a heated enclosure". Apparently a communications breakdown there.
    Tim Whitens
    Willow Creek Farm
    Fulton, NY

    2850 on vacuum, 3hp 3ph Busch pump, 2567 Gast
    30X8 Leader oil-fired evap. w/ steamaway
    Airablo 1000 RO
    10 Alpacas

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    poultney vermont
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    610

    Default

    interesting, good to know. when I first noticed the issue pump wasn't kicking up to full vac like normal, and making little noise. im trying insulating around it and believe it will help. although this is first ive heard about being told has to be in heated enclosure, seems like the solution.
    18x30 sugarshack
    3500 taps high vac
    3x10 inferno with steampan
    7'' wes fab filter press
    D&G 1000
    300&400 gal stainless concentrate tank
    1-2500
    3-1550's
    4-275's
    more taps to come in '19

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Essex VT
    Posts
    303

    Default

    I have a R-5 rotary vane Busch and the instruction says that the minimum air temperature in the room for the pump to start properly should be above 41 degrees. I keep my pump room at my sap shed at about 50 degrees when the pump is not running and then leave the outside door open to cool the pump when running.
    2004- 470 taps on gravity and buckets
    2006- 590 taps on gravity and buckets 300 gph RO
    2009- 845 taps on vacuum no buckets, 600 gph RO
    2010- 925 taps on vacuum new 2 stage vacuum pump
    2014- 3045 taps on vacuum, new 1200 gph RO
    2015- 3104 taps on vacuum
    2017- 3213 taps on vacuum
    3' x 10' oil fired evaporator with steamaway

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    New Lisbon New York
    Posts
    904

    Default

    Moisture has been a huge problem for me this year. To fix the problem I have turned the oil temp up to 180 degrees, restricted the oil to the pump, and always make sure the regulator is letting a little air into the pump head. with that combo the pump will run at 28"+. The little crack of air picks up the moisture in the oil like a steam away. and by restricting the oil it gets hotter in the pump head helping the moisture vaporize in the exhaust. It is also important to slop your exhaust away from the oil tank or else the condensation will run back into the tank. I know another producers with the moisture problem and his pump is indoors. Art from Indiana said it was the weather this year that was causing the moisture. I am not buying that. I don't think the pumps are set up right.
    Brian Ryther
    Mill Hollow Maple
    10,000 taps
    3 Liquid Ring Vac Pumps
    5x14 Leader Vortex Evap
    Lapierre 2000 RO
    http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x3/brianryther/

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Fulton, NY
    Posts
    1,339

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Ryther View Post
    Moisture has been a huge problem for me this year. To fix the problem I have turned the oil temp up to 180 degrees, restricted the oil to the pump, and always make sure the regulator is letting a little air into the pump head. with that combo the pump will run at 28"+. The little crack of air picks up the moisture in the oil like a steam away. and by restricting the oil it gets hotter in the pump head helping the moisture vaporize in the exhaust. It is also important to slop your exhaust away from the oil tank or else the condensation will run back into the tank. I know another producers with the moisture problem and his pump is indoors. Art from Indiana said it was the weather this year that was causing the moisture. I am not buying that. I don't think the pumps are set up right.
    What pump are you using, Brian?
    Tim Whitens
    Willow Creek Farm
    Fulton, NY

    2850 on vacuum, 3hp 3ph Busch pump, 2567 Gast
    30X8 Leader oil-fired evap. w/ steamaway
    Airablo 1000 RO
    10 Alpacas

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    New Lisbon New York
    Posts
    904

    Default

    I am using a Busch Dolphin Liquid ring. 3hp, 55cfm.
    Brian Ryther
    Mill Hollow Maple
    10,000 taps
    3 Liquid Ring Vac Pumps
    5x14 Leader Vortex Evap
    Lapierre 2000 RO
    http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x3/brianryther/

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Center, Underhill Ctr, VT
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    4,507

    Default

    We have 4 Busch 1142 rotary claw pumps. Two of them currently in an unheated shed. The other two in a heated room. All work fine, but the two cold units start up a little harder than the others and we do get more condensation in them. We give them a all a little shot of transmission fluid weekly. The only problem we've ever had is a VFD getting hit by lightning (solved by putting in a large removable fuse unit we can take out in the summer) and a releaser and moisture trap which both failed letting sap back into the pump (trip back to the company to have repaired). Other than that they are great units. All four currently running at about 27" Hg (and we're at about 1300' elevation).
    Dr. Tim Perkins
    UVM Proctor Maple Research Ctr
    http://www.uvm.edu/~pmrc
    Timothy.Perkins@uvm.edu

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Rock Creek, OH
    Posts
    368

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrTimPerkins View Post
    We have 4 Busch 1142 rotary claw pumps. Two of them currently in an unheated shed. The other two in a heated room. All work fine, but the two cold units start up a little harder than the others and we do get more condensation in them. We give them a all a little shot of transmission fluid weekly. The only problem we've ever had is a VFD getting hit by lightning (solved by putting in a large removable fuse unit we can take out in the summer) and a releaser and moisture trap which both failed letting sap back into the pump (trip back to the company to have repaired). Other than that they are great units. All four currently running at about 27" Hg (and we're at about 1300' elevation).
    I would be interested in having a discussion on this, Dr. P. I'm trying to find out if the Atlas Copco dry claw technology requires the same concerns as the Busch technology. The lightning - that caught my attention. Where can I find a fuse protector to offer customers in case of a lightning strike? Lightening is not a brand specific issue.

    I'm trying to weed through what is technology specific (all dry claw pumps need this) or brand specific (this brand design requires that). As far as moisture and shot of transmission fluid, I am unsure if that is specific to Busch. With stainless pump internals - I'm not concerned about corrosion with the Atlas pump. However, a flood of fluid volume into the vacuum chamber may be a concern for both brands, Atlas and Busch. A vacuum pump of this technology probably wouldn't like a slug of liquid volume.

    So is the concern twofold with the moisture trap and the Busch tech, removal of all moisture and flood protection?

    I'm really trying to learn from your experience. I'd be keen to talk offline if you are open to it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oneida NY
    Posts
    9,707

    Default

    Lightning protection is available from many solar supply sources.
    Dave Klish about 1320 taps in '15, down to about 700 in '16, up to 1000 for 2019?
    2012 Mahindra 36 HP 4x4/ loader/cab/heat/AC:-)
    added a gooseneck equipment trailer and F350 to tow it to haul more sap
    3x8 raised flue evaporator
    250 GPH converted to electric, RO by Ray Gingerich
    6.32 KW solar system, 1.48KW is battery backed up, all net metered
    http://s1041.photobucket.com/albums/...anssugarhouse/
    website: www.cnymaple.com

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