buying land

[markcasper]

The last 10 years economically things were pretty good in maple to be able to keep updating. The next 10 will be different. Maple is following the trend of every other commodity though it seems. I agree tubing should be on a 10 year - 15 year max replacement. Not upset about what you said Spud, just looi\king at it in ny operation. As for land, I would buy it. Its one of the safest and best places to invest. I wouldn't bat an eye going into debt within in reason to acquire it. IMO

[Gone Maple]

Ok, this is what my idea is to make you all have a better idea on what I'm planing to do to help me with your ideas
The land is 85000 for a 30 year loan with3500 + taps on it and has not ben logged in over 50 years with nice timer on it.
I would do a 7 year loan for sugar house and all the equipment.
So for that I want to do 55000-sugar house 15000, tubing 20000, tanks pump and releaser 20000.
The tanks and sugar house and pump is good for a long time so I won't have to buy eather of them for a while.the land has good timber on it to log for a back up.and I already make 650 gallons of syrup right now and I have uped my RO to a 1200 with 2 new membranes for it so my evap and ro should run togather. So I think I can make this all work for 140000.

[n8hutch]

I guess I would try to figure out my income potential first & foremost. If you made 1250, gallons of syrup and year that would be about 30k at today's bulk prices, then you'll have to figure out your annual expenses, subtract your mortgages and see what's left. You may decide it's not worth the extra effort. It could be the best thing you will ever do.only you can decide.

I am not sure how easy it is to get financing for tubing, I know the hard parts "stainless" evaps,tanks etc tend to be easier to get money for.

Good luck to you.

[jmayerl]

Gosh I wish land was only $1500/acre here. Going rate is 2-3 times that here

[steam maker]

I have used the usda farm service for equipment " everything including tubing" and buisness lease consultants " think thats the name" for my ro and tubing . Buiness lease is a equipment lease program, pay monthly then one final 10 percent of lease payment at end. Usda is a 7 yr loan 1 payment per yr low intrest

[steam maker]

And despite the pros and cons from people it all comes down to wether or not u want it !!! Never bad to own land . Me and wife bought 76 acres mainly cause it abutted my parents , with hopes to build a house but mainly cause i wanted it and didnt wanna look out window of sugarhouse and see people out there. And hey if the sugaring thing dont work u could have obama pay u and put up a syrian refugee camp or even worse maybe crown will buy it from u !!!!!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😩😂😂😩😂😂😂😂

[buckeye gold]

If this property has not been logged in 50 years it probably needs some cutting done just to manage the woods and cull some trees. Logging can generate some cash, but if your planning on logging bring that up with your lender, as timber value is equity/collateral to them. Chose your loggers wisely though and have a forester help you with a management plan. I would guess you could generate $500.00 an acre from logging and still manage for Maple. However, I'm not familiar with the species structure of your area and what timber you'd be cutting and it's value. I cut my sugar bush and made a $1000.00 and acre and only cut a half dozen Maples, but if your predominately maple that may not work well. On that note red and silver maples do not bring high dollar for their logs, but sugar maples do. Loggers can also put you in access roads. Decide this when you buy, because you'll want to log before putting up tubing. Logging will also clutter up your woods with tops and make running tubing harder. The up side is tons of free firewood. The main thing is you have to choose your loggers very, very, very carefully or they will do more damage than good. Kind of like choosing a teenage boy to date your only daughter, you know how they think and it's not like you.

My outside thoughts are buy the land and even if you can't get a syrup operation set up right away it will be a good investment. The money is in the bank with land. I had a chance to buy 57 acres joining my property about 20 years ago for a very reasonable price and was to tight to borrow the money and have payments. Every time I walk my back boundary I mentally kick myself now. It is easily worth four times what it would have cost me then, now. even paying interest it would have made me money. If you can make the payments buy it! worry about getting the Maple set up later.

Here is a plan I would consider:

Buy land at best deal from a bank or mortgage company

If lender allows, within first year to 18 months cut timber for cash and bush management

Next two years, cut firewood and develop roads tubing lanes, collection sites and whatever else. You can also start tapping with temporary set ups to add to existing operation

Fourth year secure construction/business loans through USDA and initiate start up of your Maple operation (this way a financial crash and burn of your maple business may still save you the land)

I know that you probably want to be up and running sooner, but I have found that most people do a better job if they take the time and follow a plan. Do it right once.

[markcasper]

And hey if the sugaring thing dont work u could have obama pay u and put up a syrian refugee camp

Or better yet, you could get them to work in your sugarwoods and they can get paid by sucking off the American citizens. Since the floodgates seem to be open for any kind of illegal critter, it wouldn't hurt to try unless they blow us sky high first.

[Spanielslovesappin]

I am with Buckeye gold and others in every way there not making more land but also don't become a slave to tapping to make your payments. that said don't let grass grow under your feet on this decision.

Our farm could have been almost three times bigger if my Grandpa had pulled the trigger in 1960 instead of 1961. Then he got mad at the power company in the 70's and sold a chunk because they did not want him crossing there property. They are not making more land, at 1500 an acre and no logging for 50 years your actual cost to buy the land is like way lower once you figure in the timber you will remove to promote the sugarbush. For sure use a forester if your going to log... if your really hard up about it hire a forester to walk the woods with you now and est. a conservative sugar driven timber sale so you really know where you will land on the land cost.