Leader clear check valves tip coming off?

[markct]

Dr Tim im just curious but why is it ok to leave the tip in when traditionaly I have always heard plugging tap holes with a cork, dowel etc was a bad practice? Not that I ever have as its enough work to pull 1300 taps I sure don't wana start having to stick a cork in etc lol just was curious how this can be ok for the tree when they say plugging the hole is bad?

[DrTimPerkins]

Dr Tim im just curious but why is it ok to leave the tip in when traditionaly I have always heard plugging tap holes with a cork, dowel etc was a bad practice?

Two things. First, the tip is all the way inside the taphole where it is not near the cambium (zone of growth) where it might interfere with ring growth like a dowel or cork inserted in the taphole would if it were put in the taphole. This would result in delayed wound closure at best or infection at worst. Second, since the CV tip is plastic it will not soak up water and rot to form as a source of infection like cork or a wooden dowel would do.

[lakeview maple]

Out of 500 I used this year I had 1 break while putting them in , user error there I hit it at an angle. When I pulled them I had 2 leave the tip inside . I didn't have an issue other wise and plan on using them again next season.

[turnpike]

Put in 600 of these spouts in my 850 tap woods. Had zero break and didn't detect any leaks. Had only one tip come off when pulling them. One issue I did have, however, was many of them, at least 1/3, had a small piece of wood chip stuck in next to the check valve ball which didn't allow the ball to close. I didn't notice this until partway through pulling spouts, but I got alerted to it after pulling one spout that had sap in the dropline and the sap ran back out through the spout after it was pulled and hanging down. Then I started looking closer and sure enough a lot of them had a tiny piece of wood chip in them. If you sucked on the tip of the spout you could pull air through it. Wasn't real happy to see this.

Now, I try to be as careful as I can in drilling holes. I used a brand new tapping bit, 1.5 inch holes, and tried to make as clean of a hole as possible, but as it only takes the smallest piece of debris to clog the check valve I'm not sure if I'll keep using the clear check valves in the future. Anyone else noticing this? Am I doing something wrong, is there a way to get a debris-free taphole 100% of the time?

[PARKER MAPLE]

We put in almost 700 of these this spring. I think personally there are way over priced for what you are getting and here is why. When you drill your hole and set your tap, you had better make sure like mentioned before that it is clear of any and all debris. Or it will find its way to the check ball and either plug it up and stop flow( 2 did this all season) or stop the ball from operating ( like mentioned before). While setting the spout we found best not to be tapping when cold low 20s or you can almost bet that you will put a hair line fracture in the striking surface that will cause a leak. When you pull the taps from the bag, better make sure the tips are snapped on all the way, or they could come off in the tree (apprx 20-25) still inside in my woods. I'm not all that impressed with these spouts, I'm sure they gave a little more, which is what I was looking for. But the headaches along the way I can do with out. I'm going with the simple operation of the straight spout again next year. Nothing to obstruct the flow or crack when tapping. Here is why. I still maintain a full time job and strictly do this after my work is done in the evenings or when time allows. I don't have lots of time to devote to chasing leak, and defenatly don't have time to back through and change our brand new leaking spouts. Keep in mind fellow sugar-makers sometimes simple is your best choice. Well for me anyways.
Just my option and 2cents
PM

[GeneralStark]

Of the 397 CV2s I installed this season, 8 tips stayed in trees. After examining them more closely, it seems that most of the tips in the batch I got are well secured in the spout body and can only be removed with serious effort. But, quite a few are loose, and either stayed in the tree, or when pulled they were half way out of the spout body. How you pull them certainly appears to be a factor, but how they were manufactured or assembled seems to be a larger factor. It seems strange to me that some are loose and some are tight. Hopefully Leader will get this issue sorted out.

One other manufacturing issue I noticed is about 10 of the 400 I purchased (3 broke due to over tapping) had deformed tips prior to installing them. The ball still seemed to function so I used them but the tips were oddly deformed. I'm not sure if these were the ones that were more likely to have the tip separate.

I didn't run into an issue with wood chips affecting the ball but I did have a few that were clogged with bio-slime. I suspect this formed recently due to the on/off of the vac. pump since the season ended. I do pull spouts on vac. to rinse the lines. So, I don't think this affected overall productivity of those tapholes but not totally sure.

Overall I do think these spouts did what they are supposed to do. I used them side by side with CDL smart spouts on new drops, and even after I stopped boiling due to off flavored syrup, I was still getting impressive quantities of sap from both spouts. The tapholes in both situations are still as crisp and clean as day one.

I am not super impressed with the manufacturing issues and defects with these spouts especially given the price. I may use them again in the future but I will generally be sticking with new drops and seasonal spouts for my taphole sanitation methodology. I have about 200 taps I installed this season so I may use them in that section next season, but everything else is getting a new drop. I will also be adding more taps for next season.

[turnpike]

I'm going to try and keep using the CV spouts as I do think they are a proven method of getting increased production, when they are working properly. Also I set my woods up with long droplines in order to accommodate 10 years of cutting off disposable spouts and my plan was to use the CV's and not replace the drops every 3 years. I am discouraged after seeing that it only takes just the smallest piece of wood chip from the taphole to bind in next to the check valve ball and not allow it to move. Doesn't seem like too many others are having this issue so hopefully I can adjust something to make super clean tapholes. Hopefully the manufacturing process will improve year next as well, and we'll hear about fewer problems with the CVs through the course of next season.

[turnpike]

I should clarify, the wood chip debris that I saw in the spout sometimes clogged the works enough to not allow the ball to move at all, but more often it just didn't allow the check valve ball to seat properly and sap would, it seems, be able to leak around it back into the taphole. Not sure if there would be some kind of partial benefit to a leaky valve.....probably not.

[Homestead Maple]

We put in almost 700 of these this spring. I think personally there are way over priced for what you are getting and here is why. When you drill your hole and set your tap, you had better make sure like mentioned before that it is clear of any and all debris. Or it will find its way to the check ball and either plug it up and stop flow( 2 did this all season) or stop the ball from operating ( like mentioned before). While setting the spout we found best not to be tapping when cold low 20s or you can almost bet that you will put a hair line fracture in the striking surface that will cause a leak. When you pull the taps from the bag, better make sure the tips are snapped on all the way, or they could come off in the tree (apprx 20-25) still inside in my woods. I'm not all that impressed with these spouts, I'm sure they gave a little more, which is what I was looking for. But the headaches along the way I can do with out. I'm going with the simple operation of the straight spout again next year. Nothing to obstruct the flow or crack when tapping. Here is why. I still maintain a full time job and strictly do this after my work is done in the evenings or when time allows. I don't have lots of time to devote to chasing leak, and defenatly don't have time to back through and change our brand new leaking spouts. Keep in mind fellow sugar-makers sometimes simple is your best choice. Well for me anyways.
Just my option and 2cents
PM

You mentioned the possibility of hair line cracks if someone was to tap when it's below 20's or so. I use a small hammer with hard rubber inserts and I didn't have any problems when I tapped with the temps in the low twenty's to teens. I don't like tapping at those temps but sometimes you don't have a choice. When I hear that people use a steel hammer to put in clear poly taps I cringe.