Looks like you had a great season. Pretty impressive sap intake. I got a question. What does mofga want you to use for washing tubing. I really want to wash or rinse mine with something this year there is a lot of debate on what to use and as stricked organic mofga is their plan is probably pretty safe and effective.
2 1/2 x 10 with steam away leader drop flue inferno arch.
550 in gravity
Yes Abbott very good season!!! I wasn't that far behind you either at 8.75 gallons LOL !!!! We doubled our best, and are calling it quits. What do you use to rinse the tubing ?? My small runs I take down and use a very diluted bleach mixture ?? My long run, 600 ft. and goes to the cedar shingle mill where I have power, I shoot it down with a 3600 psi hot water power washer. Is this OK, or do you know of a better food grade cleaner.
Anything allowed for cleaning/sanitizing in an organic kitchen can theoretically also be used to clean tubing. The most common would be bleach, but regular household bleach may contain fragrances and surfactants so it is not approved. My certification manual makes mention of Ultra Clorox Germicidal Bleach as being ok to use. Bleach can be used "up to maximum label rates" and it must be followed by a rinse with potable water.Originally Posted by twitch
If you're going that route, I think the key is to be sure you get all of the bleach out of the lines by draining and then completely flushing with water. I have never put anything other than water in my main woods, as I see crud and bacteria growth as less of a threat than bleach. Before I was even certified organic I did flush my 80 gravity taps with bleach once. I'm able to hook a tank of water on at the top of the mainline, plug the bottom, and fill the tubes under gravity. I did that with a highly diluted bleach solution and let it set for a day, drained it the best I could, then hooked on a tank of clean water and ran enough through each tap to feel confident that the bleach was out. I know a lot of people pump from the bottom and I'm sure that can work well, too.
During my long days at the sap house, how I'd like to clean the lines is one of the things I contemplate. What I've been doing is to run the vacuum pump while pulling taps, trying to let the sap get sucked out as I go. Then I go back through carrying a gallon jug of water and suck some water through each tap. Even with a gallon of water in hand and a couple more in a backpack I can only do about 200 taps before I refill. A couple days later I run the vacuum again and go through and drain the water again. Come spring, there's still plenty of junk in the lines.
I'd like to fill the lines completely and I may try to hook a big tank of water on at the high point this year. I also think that it would be really nice to flush the lines again with water in the fall since bacteria shouldn't grow after that, but that would require fixing leaks in the fall (which would probably be a good thing.) I don't think I want to put bleach in the lines because it would be hard to be confident that I flushed it all out. The junk that comes out in the sap is a nuisance but not a threat to "organic integrity."
Steve
Steven Abbott
Over 900 taps on vacuum
30" x 10' D&G Woodsaver evaporator with Steamaway
Half acre market garden
2 farmers in training
Thanks Steve that makes up my mind for me nothing but water in the lines which is what I was leaning towards. I would rather deal with the crude that I know is 100 % natural that i can see i have filtered out of the sap then ever worry about bleach or any other chemical in my sap or syrup.
2 1/2 x 10 with steam away leader drop flue inferno arch.
550 in gravity
Something to consider for rinsing the tubing is using a 50/50 water/distilled vinegar solution. I have been pulling a little bit of this through each drop with the vac. on when pulling taps for several years now and it seems to work quite well. The solution and air mix really scrub the lines and any residual solution left in the lines is harmless. Any sap left in the lines will turn to vinegar anyway. The next season I let a little sap run on the ground at first, but not much. This year I made a bit of dark syrup at the beginning of the season but the flavor was good.
About 750 taps on High Vac.
2.5 x 8 Intens-O-Fire
Airtech 3 hp LR Pump
Springtech Elite 500 RO
14 x 24 Timber Frame SugarHouse
16 x 22 Sap Shed w/ 1500 gal. + 700 gal. tanks
www.littlehogbackfarm.com
Not to be a naysayer here, but...
I also run a bit of sap on the ground. This year it was probably 100 gallons for 750 taps. I also make a bit of dark syrup before it lightens up. I'm not convinced that there is an advantage to running vinegar through the lines, especially if the sap turns to vinegar anyway. I'm also skeptical about how brief the contact time is, whether its long enough to kill bacteria.
That being said, do you feel that there is less bacteria in the lines since you have been doing this? Are you comparing to just running water through or to just sucking the sap out? I'm willing to be convinced, but I'm wary of adding in extra steps to the process. Thanks!
Last edited by abbott; 04-19-2015 at 07:41 PM. Reason: clarification
Steven Abbott
Over 900 taps on vacuum
30" x 10' D&G Woodsaver evaporator with Steamaway
Half acre market garden
2 farmers in training
I hear ya. Believe it or not, I don't even filter my sap, though that is something I would like to do better. Whatever junk makes it into the flue pan turns to scuzzy foam and I try to keep it skimmed off. I really don't think it hurts the integrity of the product, but sometimes I wonder if it makes the syrup harder to filter. Its just one of those things that you feel like you should do better about, but I'm not sure how much difference it really makes. I know what I do results in perfectly good syrup so I'm in no rush to complicate things.
Of course, I'm not exactly the most experienced sugarmaker either. My system works well for me, but I'm sure there are lots of tricks left to be learned.
Steven Abbott
Over 900 taps on vacuum
30" x 10' D&G Woodsaver evaporator with Steamaway
Half acre market garden
2 farmers in training
The water/vinegar solution will not kill microbes. My only intention with doing this is to rinse as much of the sap slime that develops late in the season out of the laterals. In my experience and based on what I have heard from others, just using water to rinse can lead to the growth of algae in the lines. The vinegar/water solution, primarily due to the lower ph, will not provide as ideal of an environment for algae growth.
There is really no way to kill the microbes that grow in the tubing, and I don't think there is much reason to try to do so as it would require some pretty serious chemicals to do so. In terms of syrup quality, I don't think we have much to worry about if your mainlines and laterals are stretched tight and well-sloped.
Last edited by GeneralStark; 04-19-2015 at 09:02 PM.
About 750 taps on High Vac.
2.5 x 8 Intens-O-Fire
Airtech 3 hp LR Pump
Springtech Elite 500 RO
14 x 24 Timber Frame SugarHouse
16 x 22 Sap Shed w/ 1500 gal. + 700 gal. tanks
www.littlehogbackfarm.com
makes sense. makes me think that a rinse of the lines in the fall would be really good (whether vinegar or not) to have them as clear as possible going into winter. As for tight laterals and good slope... I don't have much slope to work with, so that's a bit tricky here.
Steven Abbott
Over 900 taps on vacuum
30" x 10' D&G Woodsaver evaporator with Steamaway
Half acre market garden
2 farmers in training
Hey Abbott !! What do you make out of this early spring??
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