CV2 spouts breaking

[DrTimPerkins]

Several thoughts (some of which have already been suggested):

- plastic typically is less brittle as it ages (to a point, unless it is really old and exposed to the sun). They are quite brittle for a while immediately after being molded until they pick up enough moisture from the air to fully cure.
- polycarbonate (clear) fittings are much less forgiving of shear stress (not hit squarely or when stressed at an angle), which is why you see polycarbonate line tension fittings or tees breaking more frequently. Nylon will just deform a bit as stress is applied. Polycarbonate will tend to crack or shear off.
- if the spouts break off, drill them out if possible. If you don't like that, drill another hole some distance away from the first. The first hole will run some though.
- if you don't drill them out, leaving the plastic tip (or the tip/ball) won't hurt the tree at all.
- try using a different hammer

The advantages of polycarbonate are:
- people like to be able to see the sap run through them
- it is easier to spot microleaks (although not all bubbles moving through the spout are leaks....the slow tiny bubbles are gases from the tree)
- polycarbonate seems to "stick" in the tree better, and thus not require reseating as much as nylon spouts do
- polycarbonate spouts heat up less than black nylon spouts, and may run a little longer in some (hot sunny) seasons than black spouts

I have no idea whether Leader Evaporator plans to produce a polycarbonate CV adapter for the stubby system. I know it has been asked for, and discussed. In general it seems like if enough customers demand something, then the companies react (that is why there is a CV2). Unfortunately it isn't as simple as just using the same mold for nylon (the black CV adapter) or polycarbonate because of different shrinkage coefficients from the two materials. Originally when the CV adapter was first produced, there were some test pieces run in polycarbonate just so people could see how the ball valve worked. These were never intended to be used for sap collection.

We put about 3,500 of the CV2 in our woods last year, had about 5-10 breaks. Of the three tappers, I think 1 broke 1-2 and all the others were from 1 other tapper, but he also tends to break more of any type of spouts than the others do. I really think it is the shape and weight of the hammer head and how you hit them that seems to matter more. I tried to get him to change hammers, but that was like pulling teeth. His hammer has a more rounded face. I personally put in about 100 CV2s for research and had 1 break, but I also had 4 (total) of 2 other manufacturers polycarbonate spouts break out of 50 I put in.

[WESTMAPLES]

im only into my 3rd year with tubing, and i used tree saver spouts my first year, then went with the cv2`s last year ( and had great success with installion, removal and luckily no pin hole leakers) so i plan on using them again ive seen lots of the stubby cv1 styles in others operations and they like them because that was cutting edge tap technology when they where up and coming. i think it mostly depends on what a person likes to work with or is used to really. theres a few operations in my area that still put out 500 plus buckets because they haven`t worn them out or damaged them enough to warrant replace with tubing, because they are durable and take a beating with a hammer season after season . i think its just like 2 stroke oil everybody has there likes and dislikes for one reason or another, even tho they are all made for the same purpose.

[Daveg]

As plastic ages it gets brittle and they could be breaking because of that.
- plastic typically is less brittle as it ages (to a point, unless it is really old and exposed to the sun). They are quite brittle for a while immediately after being molded until they pick up enough moisture from the air to fully cure.
Seems to be some conflicting info on MT on the subject of brittleness.

[DrTimPerkins]

Seems to be some conflicting info on MT on the subject of brittleness.

Not really. Basically the brittleness of plastics varies considerably over the lifetime of a part. It starts out very brittle immediately after molding, then as it takes up moisture from the air it cures and becomes less brittle. It will remain in a reasonable state for a while, but depending upon age, use, and exposure, it will start to get more brittle again. Any polycarbonate spout you bought within the past year or two would not have aged to the point where it is brittle again unless you'd left it outside for a year or more in the woods.

[PATheron]

I use all clear checkvalves and Ive had a handful break out of 8000 so far. Usually I break the head of them off. I actually use a set of nine inch linemans pliars as my hammer and I just take them and use the cutting part of them and pry the part in the tree out and pound a new one in. I haven't yet found one without a ball. Id say Ive broke 20 of them maybe out of 8000. I think that's pretty good quality to have that few break out of that many of anything. Maybe some people are getting bad batches or something. I like the pliars because I can cut in a pinch with them and fit in pocket nice. Used same taps last year and had real good luck too. No real problems at all. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

I put in 100 of them last season and liked them. I bought 700 more for this season. I didn't have any break last season we'll see how this season goes.