Logging the Sugarbush

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

Hello,

I would like to get some feedback from people with more experience around logging in the sugarbush. The question for me now is do I have a logger come in and just take care of it all. As in, do it all at once, vs. my pick and peck approach. Pretty much I don't think I will ever make a dent. I'm working on about 100 acres with no real equipment (i.e. no tractor). I currently have about 20-30 acres of it run with tubing. The thought is to have a professional with the whole shabang, chipper and all come in and make the other 70 acres into nicer sugarwoods. Now they are a mix of Ash, Hemlock, Yellow Birch, Beech, some white Birch and some pine and spruce. I want to get most of that out so I can let the sugars and soft maples flourish. I know it will shock the maples and I can wait a year or two before tapping.

The hope would be to leave 30-40% other species, mixed and mostly hardwood.

What have been peoples experiences with doing this and if they had it to do over, would they?

Also wondering about loggers. Personally I trust them about as far as I can throw them, and if you've met some loggers, you would know they are hard to throw very far. I was wondering what a favorable contract might look like for the landowner?

Thanks for any information.

Ben

[rayi]

Did it and would do it different if I could. Might try to see if local extension office has some one to help advise. Be with the person who comes out and with the loger. After the logger leaves his mark and then leaves pull back some leafs and mark a big root. Then when they are done make sure they didn't take any un marked tree. Also make sure you know where they live so you can sue the **** out of them when they cut more than bought or trash your other trees. When they did mine they came in one day when I was at work and ruined the woods for seveal years and there are still spots that are bare.

[pmack]

Definitely hire a logger and log in the winter when the bark is tight to the tree !! If you log in spring, summer o fall, the bark will get rubbed off from skidding next to precious maples

[tuckermtn]

I will put my disclaimer right out front. I spent 10 years as a professional logger in NH, and still work in the forestry industry in NH. I treated landowners fairly and worked with them to meet or exceed their expectations. And at 160 lbs, not sure how far you could throw me...

a word of caution about hiring a forester in Vermont. Vermont does not have any forester licensing requirements, and so anyone can hang their shingle out and call themselves a forester. Defininetly check references and check out past jobs that he or she has overseen. I am sure there are foresters and loggers in Vermont who have done very good work in sugarbushes, but I can provide references of a very good forester from SW NH who has done a ton of work for 10K and 60K tap operations. He may not want to oversee a job in Duxbury Vt but I think he would be willing to be part of the marking and layout process.

also consider having a UVM Cooperative Extension County forester walk you woodlot if you have not done so already. They can be an excellent source of information. In NH, I refer to Cooperative extension foresters as the "gateway drug" to the forest products industry as they often get landowners who might not otherwise consider doing active forest management to think about doing a harvest for firewood, income generation, wildlife, or sugarbush management.

and I would also caution you from making general statements about the trust-worthyness (and size) of loggers. There are many very professional operations around the Northeast that do excellent work and meet or exceed the landowners goals and expectations. They go about their business everyday and you rarely hear about their satisfied clients. Like every industry - teachers, lawyers, politicians, etc. - the ones who do poor work and violate the laws are the ones you hear about in the newspaper.

[cjmiller272]

U hire a forester, foresters oversee the whole process, kinda like a realtor does for home sales. U first meet with forester and discuss your needs, they take care of the rest. Hiring markers, estimating quantities, sending out bids to loggers and getting u paid and making sure you are happy.

[madmapler]

I agree with the forester idea. They know who to hire based upon your situation and a logger is more likely to adhere to the rules because his reputation is at stake. Its likely he'll want to maintain a relationship with the forester whereas the typical Joe landowner is a one time deal.... Get all you can. I'm not saying all loggers are bad but you may not find out until its too late unless you know a good one.

[PerryW]

It's best to go with a smaller operator and a cable skidder (if you can still find any). They do less damage.

ALso, try to avoid logging during the spring and late spring when the bark comes off easily.

As mentioned, avoid over-thinning as too much sun will cause sun-scald to trees that are used to the shade.

[maple flats]

Definitley hire a forester, and do not use one the logger supplies. It's all a matter of who the forester is working for. The forester will ask what your goals are, mention all your goals, not just maple. Then the logger will mark the trees and solicit bids. The forester will supervise the entire process. While you will pay for the forester, it will be money well spent, and the logging will be done right. Sometimes it may cost you less than not hiring a forester, because you won't have to fix things done wrong. There are different methods of paying the forester. I prefer paying by the hour rather than a % of the logging contract. I feel that this method keeps the forester better focused on your goals.
A forester will likely have you remove all harvestable Ash (since they will soon die) but will likely not remove all other non maples. Mono culture invites too many pests that are not good for the maples. Also, as mentioned above, the cut will not thin the maples too radically, opening not more than 2 sides, then opening the other 2 on the next logging cycle, in 5-10 years.

[wiam]

I agree with finding a good forester. Talk to locals that have had a thinning done to find one. I would get it into "Land Use". You will need a forester for that anyway.

[TonyL]

Another vote for hiring a forester. I think it's time and money well spent.