Logging the Sugarbush

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

Hello,

I would like to get some feedback from people with more experience around logging in the sugarbush. The question for me now is do I have a logger come in and just take care of it all. As in, do it all at once, vs. my pick and peck approach. Pretty much I don't think I will ever make a dent. I'm working on about 100 acres with no real equipment (i.e. no tractor). I currently have about 20-30 acres of it run with tubing. The thought is to have a professional with the whole shabang, chipper and all come in and make the other 70 acres into nicer sugarwoods. Now they are a mix of Ash, Hemlock, Yellow Birch, Beech, some white Birch and some pine and spruce. I want to get most of that out so I can let the sugars and soft maples flourish. I know it will shock the maples and I can wait a year or two before tapping.

The hope would be to leave 30-40% other species, mixed and mostly hardwood.

What have been peoples experiences with doing this and if they had it to do over, would they?

Also wondering about loggers. Personally I trust them about as far as I can throw them, and if you've met some loggers, you would know they are hard to throw very far. I was wondering what a favorable contract might look like for the landowner?

Thanks for any information.

Ben

[rayi]

Did it and would do it different if I could. Might try to see if local extension office has some one to help advise. Be with the person who comes out and with the loger. After the logger leaves his mark and then leaves pull back some leafs and mark a big root. Then when they are done make sure they didn't take any un marked tree. Also make sure you know where they live so you can sue the **** out of them when they cut more than bought or trash your other trees. When they did mine they came in one day when I was at work and ruined the woods for seveal years and there are still spots that are bare.

[cjmiller272]

U hire a forester, foresters oversee the whole process, kinda like a realtor does for home sales. U first meet with forester and discuss your needs, they take care of the rest. Hiring markers, estimating quantities, sending out bids to loggers and getting u paid and making sure you are happy.

[Buffalo Creek Sugar Camp]

Be carefull thinnig the maples too quickly. If you open them up on more then 1 or 2 sides they can get stunted and may never recover. Ideally you should thin every 5 years, but it isn't practical with tubing in the woods. Definitely hire a forester and do your own research also.

[madmapler]

I agree with the forester idea. They know who to hire based upon your situation and a logger is more likely to adhere to the rules because his reputation is at stake. Its likely he'll want to maintain a relationship with the forester whereas the typical Joe landowner is a one time deal.... Get all you can. I'm not saying all loggers are bad but you may not find out until its too late unless you know a good one.

[PerryW]

It's best to go with a smaller operator and a cable skidder (if you can still find any). They do less damage.

ALso, try to avoid logging during the spring and late spring when the bark comes off easily.

As mentioned, avoid over-thinning as too much sun will cause sun-scald to trees that are used to the shade.

[maple flats]

Definitley hire a forester, and do not use one the logger supplies. It's all a matter of who the forester is working for. The forester will ask what your goals are, mention all your goals, not just maple. Then the logger will mark the trees and solicit bids. The forester will supervise the entire process. While you will pay for the forester, it will be money well spent, and the logging will be done right. Sometimes it may cost you less than not hiring a forester, because you won't have to fix things done wrong. There are different methods of paying the forester. I prefer paying by the hour rather than a % of the logging contract. I feel that this method keeps the forester better focused on your goals.
A forester will likely have you remove all harvestable Ash (since they will soon die) but will likely not remove all other non maples. Mono culture invites too many pests that are not good for the maples. Also, as mentioned above, the cut will not thin the maples too radically, opening not more than 2 sides, then opening the other 2 on the next logging cycle, in 5-10 years.

[wiam]

I agree with finding a good forester. Talk to locals that have had a thinning done to find one. I would get it into "Land Use". You will need a forester for that anyway.

[TonyL]

Another vote for hiring a forester. I think it's time and money well spent.

[Scribner's Mountain Maple]

Thanks you all, that is just the information I am looking for. I will consult with a forester, and put him on hourly during the logging operation. My friend is having his woods cut now and I went there the other day. It was clean of everything but the maples. I like the operation the logger had with a chipper. It seems thought you are maximizing your $$ when everything that is garbage is chipped. However, the logger may have taken too much.

I knew it was bad to open up more than two sides since it shocks the tree, what I didn't know was about the sun burning on the bark, the logging in the spring that removes more bark, the cable skidder doing less damage and that they may never recover if you cut too much. That is why I love the trader. The Forester is good advice. I will make sure to go that route with a Forester, logging in the fall or winter, and a more progressive logging plan to allow the trees to adapt to the cutting better. I will report back after the project is done.

Thanks again,
Ben