I think I remember reading on here that nanofiltration membranes allow some minerals through to permeate and therefore affecting the taste of the syrup.
I think I remember reading on here that nanofiltration membranes allow some minerals through to permeate and therefore affecting the taste of the syrup.
Matthew
Highly modified Leader Half Pint with Smoky Lake 2 x 4 Raised Flue
14' Grain Bin Sugar House
152 taps on 3/16 tubing
MES Dolly 100 RO
Homemade filter/canning tank with an electric water jacket
Kubota RTV 1100
http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/j...Maple%20Syrup/
You can save some money if you get you procon pump via: http://www.jcbeverage.com/
I understand one stop shopping but worth a look.
2014 - 330 taps on high vacuum, new RO/Pump house, Home Made RO (2 XLE 4040)
2013 - 230 taps on low vacuum, new 2x8 from Smokey Lake Maple, small 5 plate press from Yeany's Maple Products (Lapierre)
2012 - 26 buckets over a copper kettle heated with Natural Gas (outside)
Jcbeverage is $217 for these pumps and he cannot keep rebuilt pumps on the shelf. So far Amazon has the best price on these at $122 to $127.
Matthew
Highly modified Leader Half Pint with Smoky Lake 2 x 4 Raised Flue
14' Grain Bin Sugar House
152 taps on 3/16 tubing
MES Dolly 100 RO
Homemade filter/canning tank with an electric water jacket
Kubota RTV 1100
http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/j...Maple%20Syrup/
You by no means need a 330gph procon for only 1 4 inch membrane. That's big enough for 3. Also procon recommends at least 1 hp to run the 330. But again maybe you will need it for future expansion. I have a 0-5 gpm flow meter on the permeate side and a 0-2gpm on the concentrate side. If your recirculating then you are looking to get more water out than concentrate, so the permeate meter wants to be bigger than the concentrate. With only one membrane I don't know exactly what your numbers will be like, but I might get no smaller than the 0-2gpm instead of the 0-1gpm.
Bowhunter, I don't mean to start an argument over membranes, nor is this the place to do it. You may be right. I don't think the data sheet from dow is really giving us a very good comparison of the two types, and some of their information seems contradictory. That's all I was saying. I apologize.
Sugarbush in Tunbridge VT.
1080 taps for 2014 (made 506 gallons)
2hp liquid ring vac
3x10 small bros w/preheater, blower and new airtight front = 140 gph
Sap Brother Eco-50 RO w/4 xle 4040s and 360gph pump
I would like to get 25 to 30 gph of concentrate to keep up with the evaporator. From what I understand the more gph of sap you run across the membrane the less likely it will foul. The XLE max flow is 14gpm so that would be 840gph. My 330gph pump would be too small to get near the max flow so there is no chance of damaging the membrane with too much flow. I don't know what the ratio will be coming out of the membrane but I plan for a re-circulation line running concentrate back to the suction side of the procon therefore allowing me to run max flow across the membrane. This should give me the output I need with room for more output if I need it and all the sap gets multiple passes across the membrane so it should be of a high concentration going to the evaporator.
There will be 5.5gpm coming out of the end of the membrane to be divided between 3 flow meters.
.5gpm for concentrate
How much will be premeate?
The remaining amount for recirculating
Anybody see problems doing this?
Matthew
Highly modified Leader Half Pint with Smoky Lake 2 x 4 Raised Flue
14' Grain Bin Sugar House
152 taps on 3/16 tubing
MES Dolly 100 RO
Homemade filter/canning tank with an electric water jacket
Kubota RTV 1100
http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/j...Maple%20Syrup/
Dave,
No reason to apologize...wasn't trying to start an argument. I don't own any stock in Dow so it really doesn't make any difference to me which membrane you use. Matthew asked for advice and I offered up what I had. Dow's an extremely reputable company and the global experts on RO/NF membrane technology. They've been active in the maple syrup industry for many years and I believe they are the only membrane manufacturer offering membranes specifically for maple sap processing. They make both membranes and say very clearly the 4 inch NF 90 has a higher capacity on sap, but if you think the 4 inch XLE is better go for it. The XLE is less expensive, so maybe that's the right decision. The flavor thing has been discounted by all the experts in the industry including people on this forum. There are probably more gallons of syrup made with the NF 270 than any other membrane today. The NF 270 passes more minerals and has a reputation for some sugar loss at higher concentrations.
Leader 1/2 pint - Kawasaki Mule - Smoky Lake Filter Bottler
24 GPH RO, 2 1/2 x 40 NF3 (NF270), 140 GPH (Brass with no relief valve ) ProCon pump
2013 - 44 taps - 16 gallons syrup, 2014 - 109 taps - 26 gallons syrup
2015 - 71 taps - 13.5 gallons syrup, 2016 - 125 taps - 24.25 gallons syrup
2017 - 129 taps - 17.5 gallons syrup, 2018 - 128 taps- 18 gallons syrup
2019 -130 taps - 18.5 gallons syrup, 2020 ~125 taps-19.75 gallons syrup
My 250 gph RO uses 5 gpm flow meters. I have 2 membranes 4" x 40 each. Typical flows are 3 permeate and 1 concentrate. If you add membranes to get up to 3 total you will want a 10 gpm flow meter on permeate but the 5 is still good on the concentrate.
Last edited by maple flats; 02-28-2014 at 06:32 PM. Reason: sorry, i remembered wrong, I got barely over 4 gpm total or very near 240-250 gph. I corrected the flows. Usual was 25% conc.
Dave Klish, I recently ordered a 2x6 wood fired evaporator from A&A Sheet Metal which I will be converting to oil fired
Now have solar, 2x6 finish pan, 5 bank 7x7 filter press, large water jacketed bottler, and tankless water heater.
Recently bought another Gingerich RO, this one was a 125, but a second membrane was added thus is a 250, like I had.
After running a 2x3, a 2x6, 3x8 tapping from 79 taps up to 1320 all woodfired, now I'm going to a 2x6 oil fired and a 200-425 taps.
Dave,
What is the specs on your pump? It looks like you are getting 360gph based on your flows.
Matthew
Highly modified Leader Half Pint with Smoky Lake 2 x 4 Raised Flue
14' Grain Bin Sugar House
152 taps on 3/16 tubing
MES Dolly 100 RO
Homemade filter/canning tank with an electric water jacket
Kubota RTV 1100
http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/j...Maple%20Syrup/
Hi I made one that we have used for 2 seasons now, started with one membrane then added another. I used a 330gph procon pump. I started with the 3/4 hp carbonator motor but soon found it would get hot and trip internal overload when you push the pressure around 250+ found a adapter (3540 procon pump adapter from zorotools.com) and put 1hp 56c frame motor on it. Made a big difference now I can push 300psi no problem as that's what my ss housings are limited to. If i did it again I would not waste the money on a 3/4hp carbonator again. Just my 2 cents.
Could you elaborate a bit on this? I have the same membrane and housing as mentioned. What should I look for and/or what is needed to adapt the membrane to the housing? Surprised Joe didn't mention this to me while talking to him about my purpose for purchasing the membrane. Anyone have a picture of a membrane that is female or "cut" vs a membrane that is not?
Thanks!
Leader WSE 2x6 w/hoods
12"x20" Mason Finisher
250 taps.. Majority on tubing
14'x20' sugarshack
Kubota RTV900XT
Home built Auto Drawoff
Leader MicRO 2 RO
www.mallardpondmaple.com