1st Day - Sap Puller

[Clinkis]

If you're running off battery(s), never run them below 50% charge. Lower that that on flooded lead acid (FLA) will shorten their life expectancy. I believe gel and wetted glass mat can be discharged further, but check on that to verify. On a FLA battery, going below 50% causes the acid to begin depositing sulfates on the plates. Once deposited, no amount of charging can remove it. This is what kills a FLA battery. As long as you stay above the 50% and recharge soon enough, there will no sulfation on the plates. Here's a link I use on my solar battery back up system. http://www.trojanbattery.com/multimedia/#TrojanTips

As long as you are using deep cycle batteries this should not be as big an issue. That is what they are designed for and what would make the most sense to use in this application IMHO.

[Snowy Pass Maple]

The 4048 ShurFlo draws 2 AMP's while sap sucking because my battery charger stays set to 2 AMPs and the battery doesn't seem to lose any voltage while running. So, I think solar would be viable for a small pump like this.

If we cycle 1/2 of the flow time then you'd draw 1 AMP on average or 12 WATTs. You would be banking electricity on any sunny day with a 45W kit (Harbor Freight for about $150, for example). We'd want our battery to run through a couple cloudy days (35 Amp-Hours, for example).

To be sure you didn't lose sap, I think I would want a solenoid valve to be opened by default with gravity feed and only when the temps were high and the battery voltage was adequate would it shut for pump operation. I see 1" 12v valves on EBay for $15, so wonder if that could work if I blocked upstream ice.

I decided to just draw it...

Attachment 9397

The way I drew it, if the low voltage relay stopped the pump then sap could flow into the diaphragm and then freeze -- not good. Maybe if the pump inlet tube ran higher than the mainline (have it jog upwards a few inches after the "Y" fitting) it would force all sap to the opened valve. It would be fun trying to build it. Might need to find some more remote trees for an excuse...

Here is a spec sheet on a 4048:

http://www.shurflo.com/files/RV-Prod...48-153-A75.pdf

Looks like absolute minimum is 2.8 amps; rising quickly if there is any head to pump against - and I would assume there has to be some additional current load on it when pulling vacuum. It may be that the charger is leaking more than 2 amps, or the difference is not enough to be seen over the time run? It would be great to actually measure this load - if someone had a kill-a-watt and transformer, you could estimate the increase in load going from fully open to closed vacuum on one side. You'd just have to make sure it's not really creeping up a lot higher.

I believe you'd also have to make sure that the panels could be located with a good unobstructed view - my understanding is that even a tree branch casting a shadow on a small part of it can kill the output of the array. So that 45W probably assumed perfect installation. You'd also have to account for the fact that not all 45 watts when generating will end up stored in the battery due to conversion losses. And be willing to buy the more expensive solar panel.

Still, I like the idea and could see trying it if I could be convinced it would be cost effective. I have a couple locations that I'd love to do something like this, as they are hard to get to with a vehicle, and hauling in a battery isn't trivial. But they also have lots of trees that would mean running 200 feet of wire to get a clear panel view. Then there's the marketing/tour value... perhaps that tips the scale :-)

On the good side, you can probably find 100 amp-hr battery for $60 - so that gives you a lot more buffer to work with in this design - and then more ability to catch up on non-running days. In any case, I'd definitely have a second 100 amp-hr charged and ready to go if needed.

[CampHamp]

Looks like absolute minimum is 2.8 amps; rising quickly if there is any head to pump against - and I would assume there has to be some additional current load on it when pulling vacuum. It may be that the charger is leaking more than 2 amps, or the difference is not enough to be seen over the time run? It would be great to actually measure this load - if someone had a kill-a-watt and transformer, you could estimate the increase in load going from fully open to closed vacuum on one side. You'd just have to make sure it's not really creeping up a lot higher.

Yep. Scratching my head. Maybe since I'm not pushing 100% liquid through it draws less (even with the inlet suction) or it's my charger is running more than 2 AMPs, like you say. I should be able to put a multi-meter inline and get a real measurement for us soon enough. Maybe some video of weekend collection while I'm up there.

It would be interesting if someone else would try to cycle their pump by hand a few times to see how other setups hold vac. I'm drawing 24" in a good flow and it will stay above 20" even 15 minutes later with pump off. I don't have my cycle relay doohickey yet, but hope to test it if it arrives before we're all done for the season.

That solenoid valve might not only be a good way to switch to gravity, but also may be a good way to protect the pump's diaphragm by blocking the line right before the pump at shut-down. That'll be next year's test equipment for me.

Good points about the batteries and the space needed for good solar. Some panels allow for shadows (micro-controllers or something like that - ? - we priced these out for our house), but the Harbor Freight deal probably would need full exposure. A small wind turbine might offer an alternative...

Also, I currently need to swap-out the inlet/outlet tube when I use the vac pump to transfer the sap up to the shack. Next season I will try to have everything switchable with valves, so I can switch between 3 configs using the same pump for transfer and vacuum or just be on gravity if there's a long break between runs or the pump fails. It looks like it will work on paper and might be valuable for people who also want to use the same pump for transfer & vac.

[CampHamp]

With little to no sap and 10" of inlet vacuum, the 4048 seems to draw 1.5 AMP. I shot a short video of my setup and the measurement as well. I'll post a reading when the sap flows (probably tomorrow)...

[vtgaryw]

I've been running my Shurflo 4048 off the 2 amp setting on a battery charger (although, it *does* appear to draw more when I crank the setting up to 10A - I'll have to go up the hill and check the effect on the vacuum.)

I bought a cheap 12V, 2A power supply off of eBay (old Micronta), and thought I'd mount it in the box with the pump. Unfortunately, the 4048 seems to draw just enough to kick off the internal breaker on the supply. I'll have to scrounge around for an old PC power supply like someone else in here used.

Gary

[wnybassman]

So this looks like something I might play around with next year. I will have power at my tank location so I will likely just get a 115v unit. I will also try to connect it whereby I can disconnect it during cold spells/nights. What are some of the ways you guys are making this removable, yet maintaining a tubing connection in case sap starts running before being able to get the unit hooked back up again?

[donniet22]

All I did was build a little plywood box around it, and painted it black, I wait until the sap is dripping out of the outlet and then fire it up, I have not had a problem yet. I have kept it out throughout all this cold weather.

[wnybassman]

All I did was build a little plywood box around it, and painted it black, I wait until the sap is dripping out of the outlet and then fire it up, I have not had a problem yet. I have kept it out throughout all this cold weather.

So when the pump is not running, sap is still allowed to flow through it? If so, that changes my thought process.

[Clinkis]

So finally got an opportunity to use my sureflo 2088 sap puller the last couple days. Reasonably pleased with the results. I put it on an under performing pipeline of about 24 taps. I'd say it improved flow approximately 30-35%. Is this the type of results others are seeing?

[harrison6jd]

So when the pump is not running, sap is still allowed to flow through it? If so, that changes my thought process.

on my 2088 when not under power, the sap runs through the pump like a normal gravity system.