Checking what VT sugar makers are doing

[GiddingsHill]

Oddly enough it appears the freeze we had heading into yesterday was better than what we got here last night. I have 27F at the sap house but appears not to have frozen at all above 1000ft where it ran all night. In any event we should be able to get to 6lbs/tap today into tomorrow. Not one of our highest production seasons but I'll take it. Looking back through records its very similar in timing, volume, sugar content and lbs/tap to 2015

[spud]

It went to 28 here last night. My woods froze solid. I hope we all get a bunch more sap. Good luck.

Spud

[blissville maples]

Bliss- you criticize the CV2 spouts and turn a blind eye to all maple research. You seem to suggest you know more about maple sugaring then PMRC. You finished your season at .44 gpt and PMRC will finish at .7-.8 gpt. Was math not your strong point?

Spud

From his last post he was at .61 and one more boil or so your talking .8??
I can do my own maple research I don't need to be funded or special in any way, I'd be saying everything I could about them too if I got a cut of the profits!! The only thing Maple research has showed me is to replace taps every year I don't have Petri dishes to test all that. Pmrc isnot teaching people how to run a drill or a drill bit, set up tanks and lines, they have some guidelines that most people already know everybody knows more vacuum more sap that's common sense that you can see with your own two eyes in the field without having a scientist. A lot of their studies up there are great but not practical for the everyday tapper, in a lot of it is just general information it doesn't even matter to make syrup. You lookin leaders catalog it is said something like 70% more sap with check valves does anybody really believe that? So if you make a half a gallon per tap without them then you should make .85 gallons per tap with them? Come on people it sounds great that's about it

I got caught up a couple years ago in all this until this year I finally realized. Research is great however this is not rocket science we're not putting men on the moon, research is merely experience it doesn't take a lot of money to do research on Maple it just helps. I have two eyes and I can see things pretty clearly I saw check valve closing up and I also saw a regular CDL spout flowing just as hard. Like I said no doubt the concept is there I just don't know if it works in the field.

I just think it's funny all these guys tapping in January like yourself to get nothing for the first 4 weeks. Then hope that your check valves make up for it what's the point of watching Frozen sap in January while you're tap holes getting older and older!! Like I said I know a guy that has 3300 caps never taps before the last week of February and he makes more syrup for tap that all of you guys well you guys are out tapping he's ice fishing....2100 gallons on 3300 do the math. And math has nothing to do with this. Last year I tapped last week of January to do nothing but hope and pray for sap but the time of sap started rolling I was less than half a gallon per tap didn't have enough to use it was all spoiling. This year I listen to our friend and I waited till almost march. ( We didn't even have a sap run til the last week of February and it was a quarter per tap woo hoo wish I would of tapped in December for that -not) now here we are second week of April and if I want to turn my pumps back on I would be getting plenty of sap but it's too warm it's spoiling, making garbage.

I mean if you guys want to spend extra money on Cvs go for it, but I think you'll have the same results if you tap the normal time that you should be.

Spud I read you have a fall sugarbush somewhere along the lines I guess there's some people out there that just have to stretch it for all it's worth even more than it is at times. You had also said last week your flow is down to .25 per tap. Are the check valves working or not?? Because .25 Pertap is pretty low yield for a run.... All I'm trying to explain to people is wait it out like yourself and you're going to make just as much if not more give it a try I did. What's the point of turn the vacuum pumps on when the roots are frozen and there's no sap flow. I made more syrup this year boiling for 4 weeks that I did last year boiling for 12 it's a no-brainer. Not to mention my power bill is significantly less..... I've just watched our friend consistently make over 2000-2200 gallons on 3300 taps there's something to be said for that as he's always between .6-.7 Per tap.

I will say this on the 3/16 lines the check valves are probably going to pay off a little better, as the logics the physics and the concept all point to this.

I'll tell you one thing I hate is this liberal scheme and one guy acting like he knows everything about Maple sugaring no doubt dr. Tim knows his stuff but he's not the say all tell all of maple sugaring. I can tell you one thing he really loves the praise he gets it puts him up on a pedestal which is fine but let's not overdo it. I mean do you ever look at him at one of his speeches he acts like god....I mean come on it's just Maple sugaring people it's not like he developed a cure for AIDS. Lol. For sure I'll hear some flack for that one but so be it.

I'm a realist, take it or leave it I could care less I just tell it how it is. I'm just saying scrap the check valves and tap normal time then when people get done reading it won't feel like you can't make syrup without a check valve... And to boot you might just be surprised how much more time you have and syrup you may make. For instance instead of tapping in January waiting for sap that's not there yet you can spend January upgrading, making things better, enjoying winter or expanding.....


So Spud will you be going for another two weeks like you were saying back on 4/11. I don't want to taste any of it!!

[blissville maples]

Hey my .44 is on about 2800 maples 10"+ The other 700 are a mix of 400 reds less than 6" and 300 saplings smaller than your arm!! I only have 2000 beauties.....not bad for 1percent sugar for last 2 weeks on these idiot trees.

Go talk to.my bud he will blow u all out of the water with his 2200 gallons in a 3-4 week season on 3300 taps no cvs.

My math algorithm- Time x sugar (not sap) x input= profitability

[DrTimPerkins]

Ah...spring in Vermont.

The robins are back, peepers are peeping, the spring beauties are beginning to pop up....and Bliss resumes badmouthing me and the CV spout. What's the saying, ignorance is Bliss (or is it the other way around)?

Just a few short points.

1. Research is not just observation. There is quite a bit more to it than that.
2. No one need believe me at all. Read the research from Cornell (Steve almost always finds BETTER results with the CV than I do). Read the research from Centre Acer. Not rocket science when all three places agree that sanitation is a critical element in achieving high yields, that CVs work, and there is more than one way to do it.
3. If you don't like the CV system...DON'T USE IT! I am always amazed by people who complain year-after-year about them, but then say that they put out a bunch out and they all stopped early. If you don't like them and don't think they work...don't use them. Pretty simple. Of course there are thousands of people who do use them and get great results.

I'm the first to admit that I don't know everything about maple....I learn from sugarmakers every time I talk to them (which is why I enjoy talking to producers). I do know some things pretty well though, and scientists are trained to be pretty outspoken in their arguments (public speaking is definitely not something that comes natural to me...I much prefer a one-on-one conversation...and even better, prefer to not interact with people -- I'd would rather just write). But I'm certainly not about to back down from an argument with an ignorant bully who hides behind an anonymous screen name. So as for the pedestal...I have never put myself above producers, and will be quite happy to fade away into retirement in a few years from now and spend more time reading and fishing.

Finally, if anyone is sick of listening to me....or if you are sick of listening to someone else, this forum provides a simple way to solve that problem. Just click on the person's user name in one of the posts, Click on "View Profile", and then Click on "Add to Ignore List".

[DrTimPerkins]

Short run yesterday after the freeze-up on Monday night. Didn't start running here until late-afternoon, and then froze up again in the middle of the night. About 4,000+ gal total from both bushes, 1.7-1.8 Brix. Double-wash of the RO, then a rinse. Concentrating and testing sap for flavor, but looks nice and clear now that the lines have been flushed out some. Expecting a decent run again today, tonight, and tomorrow. Still looking to boil Friday.

Afternoon update: Turned out to be a total of 5,399 gallons of sap by the time we got it all off-loaded and tallied (1+ gal/tap in 24 hrs). Brix of 1.7. Flavor was really nice in the stove boil. So into the bulk tank it goes. Hoping it continues to run a bit overnight also. Planning to boil tomorrow, perhaps boil out the pans as well.

[Mead Maple]

Welp, was not expecting the forum to take that turn sooooo.....
I was in the (road) grader this morning at 3:15am and did not start seeing the puddles begin to coat over until closer to daylight. Took a bit longer here but definitely cooled off as daybreak hit. Roads started to become tougher to grade.
But fear not! By 9:30am things were starting to take a turn with the sunlight and start to turn to mush so I retreated to the office for paperwork and emails. Will be heading home soon to work on firewood for next year and enjoy the sunshine! Sap should run hard today, keep the faith everyone. Forecast shows the beginning of the end I think...
(Sorry for the constant editing, forum and iPhone's clearly don't jive with certain icons)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GeneralStark]

I'm just saying scrap the check valves and tap normal time then when people get done reading it won't feel like you can't make syrup without a check valve... And to boot you might just be surprised how much more time you have and syrup you may make. For instance instead of tapping in January waiting for sap that's not there yet you can spend January upgrading, making things better, enjoying winter or expanding.....

You don't seem to understand that this forum is a community of maple enthusiasts that are here to share information. Many of us actually know each other and enjoy sharing our experiences and love of this way of life. Your posts make it seem like you are instead here to rub sand in our eyes and tell us all how we should be doing it. If you want to share your opinions, so be it. But to continually disrespect the members of this forum that do their best to maintain a respectful dialogue about maple is obnoxious to say the least.

If your family friend has already figured out how to do it, why don't you just follow his lead instead of continually coming back here during maple season to generate posts that are really nothing more than a turd in all of our drinks. Clearly you are the smartest guy here and already have it figured out so why are you even here?

[Bruce L]

Bliss- you criticize the CV2 spouts and turn a blind eye to all maple research. You seem to suggest you know more about maple sugaring then PMRC. You finished your season at .44 gpt and PMRC will finish at .7-.8 gpt. Was math not your strong point?

Spud

Hey Spud,of all the members here on Maple Trader,there is only one whom I have put on my ignore list,so I don’t have to read his spewing of derogatory comments and know it all attitude. I did this probably 2 years ago,and have never looked back. I enjoy surfing through trader,still willing to admit I don’t know everything yet, and willing to help out with what information I can

[wiam]

Made 20 gallons of dark robust this morning from previous 24 hour’s sap. Finally stopped running at 29 early this morning with slush in releaser. Started running about 8:00. Hoping for more....